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Question raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags

  • macalter
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10 years 4 months ago #1 by macalter
I have a particular order that I want to see my Source tags in. In v1.4x, this was respected but I notice in 1.5x, the order is not. I know the raw display has changed to group items but is there something that also gives order "instructions"? The same has been seen in Media where the Source attached to the Media Object displays before the File Name, making it harder to tell the name.

version 1.4.4 raw GEDCOM & GUI display (same as raw)
1 TITL
1 AUTH
1 PUBL
1 CALN
2 DATE
1 FORM
1 VERS
1 TEXT
1 REPO @R2@
1 REPO @R1@

Title
Author
Publication
Call number
<Date>21 September 1976
Format
Version
Text
Repository
Repository
Last change
Media object


version 1.5 raw GEDCOM
1 TITL
1 PUBL
1 CALN
2 DATE
1 REPO @R1@
1 TEXT
1 AUTH
1 CHAN
2 DATE 13 NOV 2013
3 TIME 13:04:23
2 _WT_USER admin
1 OBJE @M9@
1 VERS
1 FORM

however, displays as different order than raw
Title
Author
Publication
Text
Media object
Last change
Version
Format
Repository
Call number
<Date>
Repository

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macalter
webtrees 2.1.18
Mac.alter [update: 24 Jan 2024]
webtrees 2.1.18 | PHP Version 8.1.17 | mySQL 8.1 | MacOS 10.15.17

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  • fisharebest
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10 years 4 months ago #2 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags
Which order would you prefer?

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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10 years 4 months ago #3 by macalter
The order I create in raw GEDCOM as I enter them from my "templates" (text files) to be in certain order.

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macalter
webtrees 2.1.18
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10 years 4 months ago #4 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags
That may work for you, but since the raw data can be in any random/arbitrary order, we need to sort them so that the titles are at the top, etc.

Otherwise we force everyone else to use raw-gedcom edititng.

The current order is:

TITL
ABBR
AUTH
DATA
PUBL
TEXT
NOTE
OBJE
REFN
RIN
_UID
CHAN

What order would you prefer?

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10 years 4 months ago - 10 years 4 months ago #5 by WGroleau
Since raw edit is now a fact at a time instead of a whole record, why would the order matter any more? Other than a “logical” order which might put CHAN & _UID at the end. TITL & RIN at the beginning. The rest might as well be spec order, or bibliographical citing order. Are there any programs reading GEDCOM that are order dependent?

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Wes Groleau
UniGen.us/
Last edit: 10 years 4 months ago by WGroleau.

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  • macalter
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10 years 4 months ago #6 by macalter

WGroleau wrote: Since raw edit is now a fact at a time instead of a whole record, why would the order matter any more? Other than a “logical” order which might put CHAN & _UID at the end. TITL & RIN at the beginning. The rest might as well be spec order, or bibliographical citing order. Are there any programs reading GEDCOM that are order dependent?


Appearance matters to me. Also, I find when the order was how I set it, I could then tell if I was missing data. I'm not saying to force anyone to use raw GEDCOM, I use it because the GUI doesn't offer all the fields on entry and it takes too much time to add one-by-one. So, I keep text files as "templates" and copy them into raw then populate.

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macalter
webtrees 2.1.18
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  • bertkoor
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10 years 4 months ago #7 by bertkoor

macalter wrote: the GUI doesn't offer all the fields on entry


As I found out recently, you can add extra level 2 tags by modifying the file includes/config_data.php. Just put the Level1 tags in the array where you think they are appropriate.

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13

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10 years 4 months ago #8 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags

the GUI doesn't offer all the fields on entry


You are using "1 CALN" in a source record. This is the wrong way to use this tag. It should be subordinate to a "1 REPO" tag, and indicates where to find the source, within the repository.

You are using "1 VERS" in a source record. This tag is part of the header, and indicates the version number of an application or data format.

You are using "1 FORM" in a source record. This tag is part of the media-object record, and indicates the media format.

webtrees is very tolerant of invalid/incorrect GEDCOM data and can display most tags in mosts contexts - but this data will almost certainly be lost if you transfer to another application.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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10 years 4 months ago #9 by WGroleau

Appearance matters to me.

And to me. That’s why I prefer the by-date order that has been standard for some time; has it changed? A logical exception is to keep UiD and CHAN on the bottom if shown at all. And when dates are not present, obviously marriage is not before birth and not after death.

I also edit raw a lot, not to paste in templates, but because it is more efficient (for me) than tabbing between fields. So it has always irritated me that the GEDCOM is generated out of order. But again, that’s just me, and if I go to 1.5, I won’t be able to see it to get irritated anymore. :-)

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Wes Groleau
UniGen.us/

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10 years 4 months ago #10 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags

That’s why I prefer the by-date order that has been standard for some time; has it changed?


Wes, Mac is talking about the "facts" in a source record - not in an individual record.

But again, that’s just me, and if I go to 1.5, I won’t be able to see it to get irritated anymore. :-)


But if you do want to re-order the data in a gedcom record, the editor in 1.5 makes it super-easy. Just drag-and-drop.

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9 years 5 months ago - 9 years 5 months ago #11 by Andreas
Hello,

long time I didn't see the need to modify one of my sources. Yesterday I tried and I was surprised. Did I miss an evolution in webtrees?

WGroleau wrote: Since raw edit is now a fact at a time instead of a whole record,...


It really seems that GUI editing of sources is not possible, because it shows only the TITL tag.

Using the raw GEDCOM edit all the other fields are available.
I tried with other sources. Same result.

Is there somewhere a switch turning of the possibility to modify SOURCES?
Or do I have the tags in a false order?
What should I do?

PS: May it be the same problem as described and solved in V 1.5 ( bugs.launchpad.net/webtrees/+bug/1198418 ) ?

Both MAUPILLÉ & RAUHUT families are using webtrees V2.1.18
Last edit: 9 years 5 months ago by Andreas. Reason: added link to fixed bug

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  • fisharebest
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9 years 5 months ago #12 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags
It is no longer possible to edit "all the source details" in a single edit form. You must edit them separately.

This is the same as other records (e.g. individuals and families). You must edit the facts (Birth, Death, Marraige) separately. You cannot edit them all together in one form.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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9 years 5 months ago #13 by Andreas
Thank you for this information.

In fact I recogniced this behavior for individuals, families an medias and never found it worrying.

Yes, I understand the reason for that. Every thing is treated in the same way with the same modules.

Both MAUPILLÉ & RAUHUT families are using webtrees V2.1.18

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  • bertkoor
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9 years 5 months ago #14 by bertkoor

fisharebest wrote: You must edit the facts (Birth, Death, Marraige) separately. You cannot edit them all together in one form.


That's really too bad...

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13

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9 years 5 months ago #15 by Andreas

bertkoor wrote:

fisharebest wrote: You must edit the facts (Birth, Death, Marraige) separately. You cannot edit them all together in one form.


That's really too bad...


Yes in fact. I have to correct my recent topic.
Medias can be edited in a very fine manner. Why doesn't this work in the same way for sources, too?

Both MAUPILLÉ & RAUHUT families are using webtrees V2.1.18

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9 years 5 months ago #16 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags

Medias can be edited in a very fine manner


The editor simply searches for certain fields, and creates an edit form for them. It does not understand the structure of the data.

It is the cause of many problems, including

bugs.launchpad.net/webtrees/+bug/1234161 - Unexpected "2 DATE" in media record lost during edit
bugs.launchpad.net/webtrees/+bug/1101935 - Multiple files in Media object not supported

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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