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Question Display issue #2: Interactive tree
- Boomn4x4
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Below is a screen shot
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- fisharebest
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Creating websites (especially more advanced ones, like the interactive tree) that work with both IE7 and other browsers at the same time is very difficult.
There's a nice pie-chart that sums it up. Google "time breakdown of modern web design"
I recently spent a week working on an improved menu system for webtrees. It's much faster (loads all images as a single sprite), prettier (all new icons), standards compliant, customisable (every menu item has a unique ID), etc., but I haven't submitted it because I can't get sub-sub-menus working with IE7.
I may well give up
Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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- HRN
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Not only. Same issue seen on demo site using IE8. Works fine with IE9
webtrees 2.1.18 at visitusinmaputo.com/webtree PHP 8.1.27
webtrees 2.1 dev on local Wampserver 3.3.2 PHP 8.2.13/8.3.0 MySQL 8.2.0
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- fisharebest
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If your'e running IE8 in compatibility mode, you'll get IE7 behaviour.
Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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- ToyGuy
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- Live like it's Christmas every day - Santa Stephen
Greg - don't do that. This month, out of 477,000+ hits with IE, only 2.6% were IE-7 and only .1% were IE-6. I'd rather have the functionality and post that the software only works with IE-8 and above. (BTW, we also had some IE 5 and 4 hits, but we're talking less than two-hands full.)fisharebest wrote: <<This seems to only be an issue with IE7>>
I may well give up
Santa Stephen the Fabled Santa
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- kiwi
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If you remove the corporate use of it from Stephen's (or any other) figures its current use is even less, and declining fast. I've heard two serious arguments for retaining support for it, and personally reject them both:
1 - "I use my work computer / laptop and they still insist we use IE6/7". Well sorry, but that's an issue between you and your employer. Both are in the wrong. The employer should recognise the value of keeping their technology up to date; and you may well be breaching your employment contract by mis-using company property for personal use.
2 - "Genealogy is an older-person domianated interest, and they don't upgrade their browsers, or even know how". Thats wrong on many levels (and I speak as one of those "older persons"):
a - not all older people are technically illiterate, and the number that are is declining.
b - I actually believe that the majority of them may well keep their systems MORE updated, because they don't "tinker" as much and therefore allow automatic updates to work as Microsoft intended, so many probably already have IE9 installed and working even if they don't know it happened!
c - If they really are unable to upgrade, we should help them to do so, rather than help them not to.
If Apple can abandon Flash (on iphones / ipads) completely in favour of HTML5 then I don't see why we can't at least take this small step in the same forward-thinking direction. There are so many advances we could be making if we didn't tie ourselves to old technology, its a shame not to do it. Personally I would make our policy to support "current" browsers only - which would even exclude IE8 now.
[EDIT: I just remembered one other argument "I can't upgrade to IE9 because it isn't compatible with Windows XP". Well its time to upgrade Windows then! IE10 is in development already, and won't even be compatible with Windows Vista! So its keep up, or drop out!]
Nigel
www.our-families.info
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- ToyGuy
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- Live like it's Christmas every day - Santa Stephen
I would concur with your logic on all matters, except perhaps this one. While I wish everyone would leave older Operating Systems behind. many still like XP and their equipment can't run newer O/S's. On the Mac side, almost for the same reasons, I have four Mac's on my desktop, one running OS 8.6 (classic) to interface with an old version of Filemaker, one G5 iMac - running 10.4 with the ability to run classic, one 3ghz duocore 24-inch iMac running Leopard and the main server - running Snow Leopard (and soon Tiger). This doesn't include the laptop which is also running Snow Leopard. The G5 iMac has Virtual PC with XP, the Intel iMac has Parallels with XP and the laptop is running Parallels with Windows 7.I would make our policy to support "current" browsers only - which would even exclude IE8 now
I only assume IE9 will not run in XP, as I've think I've read that elsewhere but because it was available elsewhere on my PC's, I didn't try. I do use IE8, although marginally and only for testing purposes. FF4 will not run on Power PC chips, so I can only use FF3.++ on the older machines.
Santa Stephen the Fabled Santa
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- erostew
- Visitor
I tend to agree with Stephen on this one too. I know quite a few people with fixed incomes or other reasons why they can't or won't buy a newer computer or OS and are stuck with Windows XP. Since Microsoft ties the availability of browser versions to certain versions of their operating system they are limited to a version of IE no newer than 8. So limiting support to only the newest major version of each particular browser is possibly going a bit too far. Though I am all for dropping support for IE7kiwi wrote: Personally I would make our policy to support "current" browsers only - which would even exclude IE8 now.
Of course one can also make the argument that nobody is limited to only the IE browser. If you come right down to it there is always some browser that everyone can use that is up to date. If FF4 drops support for PowerPC chips that still leaves at least Safari and it wouldn't surprise me if someone somewhere is doing a custom build of FF4 to support older Macs. If XP users can't use IE9 they can use the latest version of Chrome, etc., etc.
Unfortunately a LOT of users are simply not comfortable trying a different browser. I had to force my mother to start using Chrome after she got yet another stupid virus from clicking a link on Facebook and the only way I made her switch was by uninstalling the Flash plugin from her PC so she could only play her Facebook games in Chrome, hehe.
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- ToyGuy
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- Live like it's Christmas every day - Santa Stephen
Announced just today:
TenFourFox 4.0.1 is a port of Firefox 4/Gecko 2 for PowerPC Macs (G3, G4, and G5) that "uses modified Firefox source code, rewritten to remain compatible with Mac OS X v10.4 and the Power Macintosh. It also contains specific optimizations and special features for PowerPC processors." This release includes Mozilla security and stability fixes for Firefox 4.0.1, faster G5 JavaScript performance, AltiVec acceleration for WebM video and for pixel-level compositing, and other improvements. TenFourFox is free for Mac OS X 10.4.11 and up (PowerPC).
Santa Stephen the Fabled Santa
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- kiwi
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Stephen, re
No need to assume, this is from Microsoft itself ( support.microsoft.com/kb/2409098 ):I only assume IE9 will not run in XP, as I've think I've read that elsewhere
Internet Explorer 9 requires one of the following operating systems (or a later version):
Windows Vista (x86 and x64) with Service Pack 2 (SP 2)
Windows 7 (x86 and x64)
Windows Server 2008 (x86 and x64) with Service Pack 2 (SP 2)
Windows Server 2008 R2 x64
XP is 10 years old now - so still using that is no better than using IE6 which is about the same age.
Nigel
www.our-families.info
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- HRN
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Compatibility mode on/off, I see no difference.
webtrees 2.1.18 at visitusinmaputo.com/webtree PHP 8.1.27
webtrees 2.1 dev on local Wampserver 3.3.2 PHP 8.2.13/8.3.0 MySQL 8.2.0
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- makitso
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Rob
www.skatekey.net ( webtrees 2.1 beta GitHub)
webtrees forum admin
PHP 8.1.21
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- WGroleau
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- Posts: 2152
In our case, we recognize that value and yet we have to go slowly because we have software from vendors that depends on IE6. We don't have the luxury of just tossing it out on short notice because it affects the medical care of thousands of people. (But we're working on it) On a similar line, I maintain software that I've wanted to re-write for years and never had the time. This stuff supports hospital billing, and I recently discovered that two of the packages would not work when moved to Windows XP/Access 2003 from their current home on Win2000/Acccess2000 !employer should recognise the value of keeping their technology up to date
Now that I've said that, let me also say it in no way suggests webtrees has any reason to put a lot of effort into ancient browsers. If code complies with standards and adds value, let's use it. webtrees is neither safety critical nor money critical.
--
Wes Groleau
UniGen.us/
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- makitso
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In IE8, when you pick the Interactive tree off the charts menu you get it in full screen mode. When you pick it off the Person page it is not in full screen. If you select the Full Screen icon then the display clears up. I don't know if this helps or not but maybe the default should be Full Screen from the Person page?
Rob
www.skatekey.net ( webtrees 2.1 beta GitHub)
webtrees forum admin
PHP 8.1.21
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- fisharebest
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What exactly do you mean by "pick it off the person page"?
Sorry - I don't have access to a windows machine at the moment, so can't easily investigate IE problems.
Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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- makitso
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Rob
www.skatekey.net ( webtrees 2.1 beta GitHub)
webtrees forum admin
PHP 8.1.21
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- dave_z
- Visitor
kiwi wrote: I didn't expect total agreement for abandoning IE8 of course, but still regard it as a good goal for sooner rather than later. As Stew said, there are plenty of alternatives to ANY form of IE, and all perform better (FF, Safari, Chrome, Opera being the main contenders).
Stephen, reNo need to assume, this is from Microsoft itself ( support.microsoft.com/kb/2409098 ):I only assume IE9 will not run in XP, as I've think I've read that elsewhere
I can confirm that IE9 doesn't seem to work on Windows XP. It showed up with other system update files but didn't install even though I selected it for installation.
I did install Firefox (Thunderbird & other open software) right after I got the computer. The only thing I use IE for is system updates so I don't care how compatible webtrees is to IE.
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