Web based family history software

Question How to mark individuals on group photo ?

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5 years 11 months ago - 5 years 11 months ago #261 by PKlimis
Replied by PKlimis on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?
My opinion is that the best practice is to keep different layers in data handling.

Desktop applications (like GRAMPS) offer a much more efficient environment for data management than web applications.

On the other hand, web applications like WebTrees are absolutely necessary for publishing.

So the critical point in this scenario is the data transfer (GEDCOM and media).

About the face tagging with custom GEDCOM tags... I will search this option. I don't know anything about these tags.

Panos

Kamarinologio at
genealogy.kamarina.gr (webtrees 2.1.19)
Last edit: 5 years 11 months ago by PKlimis.

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5 years 11 months ago #262 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?
The nice thing about custom tags is that you can invent them yourself! The only requirement is that they start with an underscore.

GEDCOM specifies the link is from individual to the media object, so there you can add extra attributes, eg:
Code:
0 @I123@ INDI 1 NAME John /Doe/ 2 GIVN John 2 SURN Doe 1 OBJE @M45@ 2 _POSX 100 2 _POSY 75 2 _RADIUS 25


You could also store it in the media object, which imho is a bit cleaner:
Code:
0 @M45@ OBJE 1 FILE JohnDoe.png 2 FORM png 1 ASSO @I123@ 2 RELA father 2 _POSX 100 2 _POSY 75 2 _RADIUS 25

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13

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5 years 11 months ago #263 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?
Another option is to store this information in the EXIF data in the .JPEG file.

It was discussed here:

github.com/fisharebest/webtrees/issues/744

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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5 years 10 months ago #264 by UksusoFF
Replied by UksusoFF on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?
@PKlimis
Please check latest master version. I've added admin page which can try to search notes for missed media id by their filename.

@bertkoor
Which software support _POSX _POSY?

@fisharebest
Thanks for EXIF support issue. I've will try add this to module.

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5 years 10 months ago #265 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?

UksusoFF wrote: Which software support _POSX _POSY?


Your module maybe in the future?? You asked about custom gedcom tags. Well, that's what these are! Extra tags for storing little pieces of information, for your own benefit.

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13

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5 years 10 months ago #266 by UksusoFF
Replied by UksusoFF on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?

bertkoor wrote: Your module maybe in the future?? You asked about custom gedcom tags. Well, that's what these are! Extra tags for storing little pieces of information, for your own benefit.

Okay, there is no problem add this custom GEDCOM tags which can be stored in database and probably can be exported.
But who will use them?

I thought you mean that there was some other software that supports this tags :)

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5 years 10 months ago #267 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?
Any user defined GEDCOM tags such as "_POSX" and "_POSY" will only be as useful as the software that understand them.

In most cases user define tags will not be understood by any other program than the program that invented them. If the tags are kept and maintained in webtrees exclusively then they will be understood by your module and only your module. This is fine in a "closed" world where webtrees is the only program that a genealogist/family historian uses, however, we have found that many genealogists and family historians perform a routine I call "round tripping" where they use webtrees for exposing their work to the world via a website but do much - if not all - of their updates in another program most likely a desktop program. These "other programs" will - in general - never understand any other user defined tags other than their own (sadly most of them don't even understand the tags that are defined in the GEDCOM standard!).

It is my opinion that putting more "user defined tags" in the GEDCOM file within webtrees can work, but the big issue to this solution could be that round trippers will lose the tags when they import them into their desktop program and then return the modified GEDCOM back into webtrees. This will cause you to want to look for a better solution.

Since the information you're proposing is related to a specific photographic element that could be used in other applications I would agree with Greg that the best place to store information about the photo in within the photo. This is called metadata. This would be true for not only the coordinates of the people in the photo but any information about the photo such as 1) Date it was take, 2) Copyright information, 3) location of photograph. In this way all metadata will follow the photo and will have less chance of being destroyed or lost as it flows in and out of webtrees or other programs. This way too, 10 (or 100) years from now when the photo is read by your descendants they will not need webtrees to know about the photo. If you create an EXIF statement that can be read both as a set of key information used by webtrees as well as a user readable sentence then the data, even if it is modified at some point in the future, has a great chance of surviving time.

Ken

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5 years 10 months ago #268 by PaulR
Replied by PaulR on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?
I haven't read every page of this thread but as Greg suggested on the first page, putting text on the image is surely a safer way to ensure the information stays with the picture than storing it in any external file (or as exif data). I have many photographs in my tree and all of them have identifying captions in the image itself (usually .png format). I either put names in a white border below the image or if there are many individuals, put a copy of the photo below the first with 'a', b', 'c' or whatever above each person's head and a key below. If someone can view the image, they will see the information. It's the equivalent of writing details on the back of a traditional photo. I have about 20 photos dating from the 19th century that came from a family album but none have anything on the back. It is sooooo frustrating to know they are related but not to know who they are!

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5 years 10 months ago #269 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?
webtrees 2.0 will allow a media object to contain more than one media file.

One use for this is to have two copies of each photo. The first is the original (which is displayed by default), and the second has annotations showing who is who.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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5 years 10 months ago #270 by PKlimis
Replied by PKlimis on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?
@UksusoFF, it works fine. thanks a lot!

A little suggestion... in admin's page, it would be convinient to open a photo and edit tags (add or remove).

Panos

Kamarinologio at
genealogy.kamarina.gr (webtrees 2.1.19)

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5 years 10 months ago #271 by UksusoFF
Replied by UksusoFF on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?

PKlimis wrote: A little suggestion... in admin's page, it would be convinient to open a photo and edit tags (add or remove).

I don't want add Colorbox to admin section. But media now have link to media viewer where you can do this.

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5 years 10 months ago #272 by PKlimis
Replied by PKlimis on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?
Thanks for the solution.

Just curious... why you don't want to add Colorbox to admin section?

Panos

Kamarinologio at
genealogy.kamarina.gr (webtrees 2.1.19)

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5 years 10 months ago #273 by UksusoFF
Replied by UksusoFF on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?

PKlimis wrote: Thanks for the solution.

Just curious... why you don't want to add Colorbox to admin section?

As I can see: Colorbox logic is a part of theme. And administration theme does't contains it at all. I'm afraid that it's can affect to other administration logic.

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4 years 11 months ago #274 by miqrogroove
Replied by miqrogroove on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?

Tel wrote: Desktop software allows you to assign parts of a larger photo. to individuals. I use Family Historian which allows you to do just this using NOTE and _AREA tags


I use Family Tree Builder, which has a slightly different gedcom format for face tags. marku5 made me aware of the webtrees plugin today. What we need for a full solution is an import script to convert gedcom tags into the schema used by the plugin for webtrees. This way, the desktop software can handle tag editing and individual photo creation, while webtrees can display the imported photos and face tags.

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4 years 11 months ago #275 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?
A much better solution not dependent on the import of various dialects of GEDCOM and requiring translations from and to multiple dialects (that could change tags any time they want) is to use webtrees v2.0 with 2 pictures the first without visible names and the second (potentially with outlines people blobs) containing visible names. This concept requires no translation of coordinates and provides long term low technology viewing if technology changes down the road.

Ken

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4 years 11 months ago - 4 years 11 months ago #276 by UksusoFF
Replied by UksusoFF on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?

miqrogroove wrote:

Tel wrote: Desktop software allows you to assign parts of a larger photo. to individuals. I use Family Historian which allows you to do just this using NOTE and _AREA tags


I use Family Tree Builder, which has a slightly different gedcom format for face tags. marku5 made me aware of the webtrees plugin today. What we need for a full solution is an import script to convert gedcom tags into the schema used by the plugin for webtrees. This way, the desktop software can handle tag editing and individual photo creation, while webtrees can display the imported photos and face tags.

Seems like Family Tree Builder export each person on photo as separate GEDCOM media with custom tag _POSITION. webtrees import only first object and skip others. So in database we can find _POSITION only for first person marked in Family Tree Builder. :(
Last edit: 4 years 11 months ago by UksusoFF.

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4 years 11 months ago - 4 years 11 months ago #277 by miqrogroove
Replied by miqrogroove on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?

UksusoFF wrote: Seems like Family Tree Builder export each person on photo as separate GEDCOM media with custom tag _POSITION. webtrees import only first object and skip others. So in database we can find _POSITION only for first person marked in Family Tree Builder. :(


In that case, the import script only needs to read tags from the gedcom file and write them into the plugin's table. It is not a significant difference.
Last edit: 4 years 11 months ago by miqrogroove.

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4 years 11 months ago #278 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?
Don’t forget if the import is different for every dialect of GEDCOM the export would also need to be different. The export would then need to know the target dialect and keep up with any changes.

Ken

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4 years 11 months ago #279 by miqrogroove
Replied by miqrogroove on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?
I was not aware that the plugin exports face tags at all?

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4 years 11 months ago #280 by UksusoFF
Replied by UksusoFF on topic How to mark individuals on group photo ?

miqrogroove wrote: I was not aware that the plugin exports face tags at all?

My extension can't export faces to any GEDCOM at all.
It's used only for display faces in webtrees.

Today I wrote some logic which can display associated persons if selection marked as personal photo in MyHeritage Family Tree Builder and imported to webtrees, but can't find other relations in database.

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