Please do NOT post requests for help here. Use the Help forum for that.

TOPIC: What is correct way to record "Family Nickname"?

What is correct way to record "Family Nickname"? 1 week 6 days ago #1

  • micevic
  • micevic's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New
  • Posts: 2
What is correct way to record "Family Nickname" in webtrees?
"Family Nickname" would be a non official name given to a family to distinguish them of people with the same family name.
Often referred to as eg. Farm name, or Location/region of family, Origin name, Specific nickname originated from specific ancestor..

Thank you for your help
Pedja
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What is correct way to record "Family Nickname"? 1 week 6 days ago #2

  • norwegian_sardines
  • norwegian_sardines's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Gold
  • Posts: 1507
Technically GEDCOM does not support a specific field for these concepts.

In Norway (and many other places in the world) people were not always required to have family names. They were identified by who their father was, the farm they came from, or the city/village where they were registered. In many cases these identifiers became surnames later in history.

So, your question is a valid one. How do you add additional person identifiers that are not a given, middle or surname?

I’ve wrestled with this for years before using webtrees and after. The best alternative I’ve come up with is the “NATI” tag, defined as:
NATIONAL_OR_TRIBAL_ORIGIN:= {Size=1:120}
The person's division of national origin or other folk, house, kindred, lineage, or tribal interest. Examples: Irish, Swede, Egyptian Coptic, Sioux Dakota Rosebud, Apache Chiricawa, Navajo Bitter Water, Eastern Cherokee Taliwa Wolf, and so forth.

This is not perfect by any means, but I focus on the part in the definition that states, “or other folk, house, kindred, lineage”, which is kind of what these identifiers are see as being. Now mind you, I don’t know of any way to use this bit of information in a report, or search (although I could be very wrong). But this does give me a common place to put this data that will not get mixed up with other data using the same tag.

I’m hoping in future releases of webtrees when the report engine gets redone that I can create a report that can combine this value with the name to present an accurate identifier for someone.
Ken
Last Edit: 1 week 6 days ago by norwegian_sardines.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What is correct way to record "Family Nickname"? 1 week 5 days ago #3

  • bertkoor
  • bertkoor's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Gold
  • Greetings from Utrecht, Holland
  • Posts: 1484
I'd use the field "also known as" for such alternative names.
stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.9
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What is correct way to record "Family Nickname"? 1 week 5 days ago #4

  • Tel
  • Tel's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New
  • Posts: 46
Pedja, can you provide a specific example? As Ken mentioned, it depends on context. For example I would regard a nickname as the name by which a person was commonly known, rather than their name at birth but it varies by country. Are you referring to a person's 'patronymic' name, for example?
Terry
running webtrees 1.7.11 at mynorfolkancestors.net
on PHP 7.2, MySQL 5.6.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What is correct way to record "Family Nickname"? 1 week 5 days ago #5

  • micevic
  • micevic's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New
  • Posts: 2
Hi Tel,
Examples will be "a nickname of the one branch of the family" that is distinguishing them from others, even though they have the same last name and officially in the documents this family nickname is not mentioned.
names may come, and they come in different ways eg. Farm name, or Location/region of family, Origin name, Specific nickname originated from specific ancestor..
These are all nonofficial but well know "Family Nicknames" . And they are used within large families branches to distinguish individuals or even whole families.

Thanks
Pedja
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What is correct way to record "Family Nickname"? 1 week 4 days ago #6

  • bertkoor
  • bertkoor's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Gold
  • Greetings from Utrecht, Holland
  • Posts: 1484
These are definitely good examples of "also known as".

Note that the menu bar with icons has one called Edit and it has the option to add another name. You may add multiple. To tell these names apart, you can give them a type. Was it the name given at birth, or the one after marriage, or an alias: put that there.

Nb, have you read this?
wiki.webtrees.net/en/Names:_Advanced_Topics
stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.9
Last Edit: 1 week 4 days ago by bertkoor.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What is correct way to record "Family Nickname"? 1 week 4 days ago #7

  • littlegolf
  • littlegolf's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New
  • Posts: 23
micevic wrote:
What is correct way to record "Family Nickname" in webtrees?
"Family Nickname" would be a non official name given to a family to distinguish them of people with the same family name.
Often referred to as eg. Farm name, or Location/region of family, Origin name, Specific nickname originated from specific ancestor..

Thank you for your help
Pedja

Thanks Pedia for this question: same here...
In the north of Italy an unofficial "family nickname" has been choosen to identify some families and their relatives like an alternative or a double surname and it is still in use in small-medium town and in rural countries.
Not like a setted rule, it often was included in catholic church's registers (i.e. baptisms/marriages/deceased) as a popular surname: it was reported in catholic documents but not in official state documents.
I found my ascendents' "family nickname" only in church registers.

There are, anyway, few towns in Italy where nowadays this family nickname is added as second surname in all official documents to prevent homonymy problems. This is not my case.

In WT I only added it in a shared note.
I'd like this "family nickname" automatically be added to the descendants details, like an "also know as" added to surname, not to name...
I think NATI field is not a solution for my case.

Do you have any other solutions?
Mario Golfetto | OpenSource & debian enthusiastic fan
[I'm sorry for my bad english...]
Last Edit: 1 week 4 days ago by littlegolf.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What is correct way to record "Family Nickname"? 1 week 4 days ago #8

  • norwegian_sardines
  • norwegian_sardines's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Gold
  • Posts: 1507
If your research, understanding and intimate knowledge of the way names are used in the locale you are studying compels you to consider the identifier as a surname, then by all means enter it as a surname.

When one talks about “double surname” I immediately think about the naming convention used by Spanish and Portuguese individuals where multiple surnames are taken coming from both their maternal and paternal family lines, and then altered again by adding a male spouse surname at marriage.

If this is the case then each surname would be entered separately encapsulated in “/“ marks. For example: António /Borges/ /Santos/. Since both Borges and Santos are surnames coming from parental lines. I’m not completely familiar with these naming conventions because I am not of this ethnic group and have not studied in depth all of the possibilities, but I’ve noted when 4 or more surnames have been used.

In other locations clan names, house names and tribal names are used to identify what lineage you come from. Theses names are not surnames and in my opinion must go into the NATI tag. For example: House of Tudor, McGreger clan. In some cases these names became, in modern times, surnames due to laws being passed requiring people to have inheritable family names.

In Norway, before 1924, an inheritable family name was not required. A person would be called by a given name, then by their father’s given and individual gender, then by their current farm name. For example: Jarl Olafssen Bruflat, or Borghild Olafsdoter Naustdal. These individuals are brother and sister living on two different farms. No family names at all, yet they should be part of a family grouping. GEDCOM does not provide for this. Other places in the world still use this naming convention today, Iceland For example.
Ken
Last Edit: 1 week 4 days ago by norwegian_sardines.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Do you need a web hosting solution for your webtrees site?
If you prefer a host that specialises in webtrees, the following page lists some suppliers able to provide one for you: 

What is correct way to record "Family Nickname"? 1 week 4 days ago #9

  • norwegian_sardines
  • norwegian_sardines's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Gold
  • Posts: 1507
Therefore if GEDCOM does not provide for a solution or you don’t like the solution others suggest. You have to create one of your own.

“Family Nickname” does not have a specific solution.

Do you treat “Family Nickname” as being similar to a “House of Tudor” example from English royals, or a “kindred” or “lineage” then as defined by GEDCOM the value must go into the NATI tag.

If you want the name more directly associated with the individual’s name the you can enter it as an Alternate name with a “TYPE” tag identifying it as a Family Nickname. It is not a surname so you can’t put “/“ around it.

You could also just enter the Family Nickname after the full name, for example: John /Doe/ Tudor. Where Tudor is the Family Nickname.
Ken
The administrator has disabled public write access.

What is correct way to record "Family Nickname"? 1 week 4 days ago #10

  • Tel
  • Tel's Avatar
  • Offline
  • New
  • Posts: 46
norwegian_sardines wrote:
<snip>...If this is the case then each surname would be entered separately encapsulated in “/“ marks. For example: António /Borges/ /Santos/. Since both Borges and Santos are surnames coming from parental lines. I’m not completely familiar with these naming conventions because I am not of this ethnic group and have not studied in depth all of the possibilities, but I’ve noted when 4 or more surnames have been used....

Pedja, there's more info. on this in the Wiki under wiki.webtrees.net/en/Names:_Advanced_Topics. Alternately, perhaps adding a Shared Note is an option and is perhaps the simplest way to share a nickname amongst a group of individuals. You can then use the Lists > Shared Notes option to view associated family members.
Terry
running webtrees 1.7.11 at mynorfolkancestors.net
on PHP 7.2, MySQL 5.6.
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Powered by Kunena Forum