Web based family history software

Question 1 DEAT Y output

  • JustCarmen
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3 years 7 months ago #1 by JustCarmen
1 DEAT Y output was created by JustCarmen
According to Greg there should be a discussion about the way 1 DEAT Y should be written on the facts and events tab, but I can't find it. So if someone knows which discussion he means, please reply with the link.

I've asked questions about it on Github . In my opinion it is a bug to just leave the field completely empty on the facts and events tab when a 1 DEAT Y is recorded. There is no visitor who will understand the meaning of an empty field without any text! So I strongly vote to bring the text "Yes" back to the empty field to indicate a positive death record. A death event is not always that obvious and even when it is, then I don't think the field should be left completely empty. Curious about your opinion.


Carmen
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3 years 7 months ago #2 by mp
Replied by mp on topic 1 DEAT Y output
I want to support this. The field should not be empty. If no date or place is known, the simplest solution should be to display "Yes" again.

Martin - ffp.bauschaffen.de

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3 years 7 months ago #3 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic 1 DEAT Y output
Just searched the forum, cannot find it was discussed.

+1 for showing "Yes" (probably a good idea for all events/facts) but only when no other details are known.

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3 years 7 months ago #4 by ddrury
Replied by ddrury on topic 1 DEAT Y output
+1

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3 years 7 months ago #5 by HRN
Replied by HRN on topic 1 DEAT Y output
+1

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3 years 7 months ago #6 by rsbarreiro
Replied by rsbarreiro on topic 1 DEAT Y output
+1

P.S.: I think that Vesta modules should also adopt this practice...
* translated by Google

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3 years 7 months ago #7 by drblam
Replied by drblam on topic 1 DEAT Y output
I also support this. BTW, I also tried to search for the previous discussion and wasn't successful. Here are the closest candidates.

This one complained about a spurious "yes" appearing in many fields, including occupation, and was linked to this github issue

This one described a bug where an individual already had the entry "1 DEAT Y" but still showed up in statistics of longest-living people.

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3 years 7 months ago #8 by Lars1963
Replied by Lars1963 on topic 1 DEAT Y output
I agree with Carmen, a empty field is not clear. It should say "yes" or even better: "died, but date of death unknown"

Lars van Ravenzwaaij - see my family tree at www.ravenzwaaij.info

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3 years 6 months ago #9 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic 1 DEAT Y output
OK - I think that is conclusive.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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  • JustCarmen
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3 years 6 months ago #10 by JustCarmen
Replied by JustCarmen on topic 1 DEAT Y output
Thank you all for your response and thanks Greg for taking the result into account.


Carmen
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3 years 6 months ago #11 by photon flip
Replied by photon flip on topic 1 DEAT Y output
My interest in this I brought up on github is that charts display a name and the word Death for undated death records. When you've run the data fix for missing deaths thats everywhere - kind of dark really and superfluous. It's maybe not so much an issue in the full records. There didn't seem to be much interest in this so I built a module to fix it for mine.

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3 years 6 months ago #12 by thomas52
Replied by thomas52 on topic 1 DEAT Y output
If no children are listed in a family, webtrees shows "No children." I prefer "No known children" and have edited my en-US.csv to modify the default verbiage.
It would be nice to have this option for the "death" entry, so I could tailor the language as "Dead, but circumstances unknown" or "Dead, date & place unknown."

"Failure is an amazing teacher." (L'échec est un professeur extraordinaire.)

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3 years 6 months ago #13 by photon flip
Replied by photon flip on topic 1 DEAT Y output
By the logic for "Death Yes" we should have "Birth Yes", "Baptism Yes", "Burial Yes" etc. etc. That's a statement about the Gedcom notation and makes no sense to a visitor interested in their family information. I agree with Lars1963 and thomas52 use something that is informative of the real world facts, known or stated as unknown.

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3 years 6 months ago #14 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic 1 DEAT Y output
I agree with showing Yes for all event in absence of further details.

While technically alright, do scratch your head when encountering a Baptism Yes without further details

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3 years 6 months ago #15 by rsbarreiro
Replied by rsbarreiro on topic 1 DEAT Y output

photon flip wrote: By the logic for "Death Yes" we should have "Birth Yes", "Baptism Yes", "Burial Yes" etc. etc. That's a statement about the Gedcom notation and makes no sense to a visitor interested in their family information. I agree with Lars1963 and thomas52 use something that is informative of the real world facts, known or stated as unknown.


the point is that it is common for gedcom to have "1 DEAT Y" and this generates an empty death ticket. It is not common to have "1 BIRT Y" or "1 BAPM Y" ... but if it existed then it should also appear with "yes" ...

* translated by Google

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3 years 6 months ago #16 by phicome
Replied by phicome on topic 1 DEAT Y output
"Yes" n'a aucun intérêt :
- Individu né en 1650 => Décès Oui = évident. Comme Thomas 52, je préfére "Date et lieu inconnus".
- Pour des évènements comme "Jamais marié(e)" ou pour un couple "Non mariés" "Yes" est implicite.

"Yes" has no interest:
- Individual born in 1650 => Death Yes = obvious. Like Thomas 52, I prefer "Date and place unknown".
- For events like "Never married" or for a "Unmarried" couple "Yes" is implied.

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  • JustCarmen
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3 years 6 months ago #17 by JustCarmen
Replied by JustCarmen on topic 1 DEAT Y output

Individual born in 1650 => Death Yes = obvious.

True, but it still doesn't justify an empty field. That is the issue.

I prefer "Date and place unknown".

'Yes' also implies date and place unknown, otherwise the date and/or place were filled in. And 'Yes' could be used in other cases too like 'Never married' etc. So it is consistent.

the point is that it is common for gedcom to have "1 DEAT Y" and this generates an empty death ticket. It is not common to have "1 BIRT Y" or "1 BAPM Y" ... but if it existed then it should also appear with "yes" ...

Agree


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3 years 6 months ago #18 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic 1 DEAT Y output
Technically in GEDCOM only four event tags allow a “Y” following the tag, BIRT, CHR, DEAT, and MARR.

So I would vote for “Birth Place/Date Unknown”, “Christening Date/Place Unknown”, “Death Place/Date Unknown”, “Marriage Place/Date Unknown”

Ken

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3 years 6 months ago #19 by phicome
Replied by phicome on topic 1 DEAT Y output
Ce n'était que mon avis...
A quoi sert "1 BIRT Y" ? Tous les individus de ma généalogie sont nés.

It was only my opinion ...
What is "1 BIRT Y" used for? All the individuals in my genealogy are born.

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3 years 6 months ago #20 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic 1 DEAT Y output
The absence of date & place give away they are unknown to the editor, OR had no opportunity yet to record them. Maybe further research was needed, or maybe it was just lazyness! So I'd stick with the simple "Yes", otherwise the sentence that covers all situations gracefully would become our bikeshedding project.

Ken wrote: Technically in GEDCOM only four event tags allow a “Y” following the tag, BIRT, CHR, DEAT, and MARR.


- BIRT Y is indeed futile, being born is implicit
- CHR Y (and not BAPM?) without any further details like religion or source is questionable to record at all, but there could be good reasons to
- MARR Y well in most cases we're actually not 100% sure, otherwise the details would be recorded ;-) But I really like the link it renders to the family in the event overview
- DEAT Y really stands out. It does add value for things like privacy calculations, especially in case no other dates are known - it's not needed in case it's already known he was born centuries ago.

But we are not the committee to do recommendations on best gedcom practices.

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