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Locations and hierarchy - Former German areas 3 months 1 week ago #1

  • ChrisAndersen
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Dear location hierarchy professionals,

I'm getting more and more records with persons which were born, married, and died in Czech, Slovenia, and Poland.
Parts of these countries were German once and all big and little cities, all regions had German names.

Problem: My location hierarchy is getting mixed up and is not consistent.

To solve this challenge in WT I have to consider:
1. Political correctness/accuracy (the actual location names and hierarchy from i.e. Wikipedia)
2. Genealogical accuracy (the location names and hierarchy of i.e. birth certificates and old maps)
3. I don't want to exclude Czech, Slovenian, or Polish people by using German
4. WT location hierarchy rules (and other fields like notes and text)
5. Tricks I don't know of (perhaps brackets, stars, and whatever)

At the moment I'm doing it like this (Johann Kosler / Kozler)...
City (Slovenian), City (German), Region (Slovenian), Region (German), Country (English)
Kočevska Reka, Rieg, Kočevje, Gottschee, Slovenia

I decided to display the country in English because it changes automatically to all other languages through the WT algorithm.

The political correct hierarchy for this city would be:
Village, City, Region, Country
Kočevska Reka, Kočevje, Jugovzhodna Slovenija, Slovenia

I'm eager to find out what other users do and what kind of tricks maybe come with WT.
So... how would you tackle challenges like this?
genroot.me/1 (blushing)
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Locations and hierarchy - Former German areas 3 months 6 days ago #2

  • fisharebest
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You have two types of data in your genealogy - evidence and conclusions.

Evidence is your sources, citations, repositories, etc.

Conclusions are the dates, places and facts that you discover from the evidence.

The "evidence" should use the historic place names. You always copy your sources verbatim.
The "conclusions" should use the current place names.

So, you might have sources saying that someone was born in a town in historic Germany, but your conclusion would say that they were born in a town in modern-day Slovenia.

Next, you have the question of which language to use for place names. Here, it doesn't really matter - as long as you are consistent. Don't try to write German places in German, Italian places in Italian, etc. You'll get stuck when you have a country with more than one official language.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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Locations and hierarchy - Former German areas 3 months 6 days ago #3

  • Peter_S
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Hello Chris,

if you use the custom module GOV4Webtrees by Richard Cissée, you can display place names based on a GOV-ID, the historical name derived from the event date as well as the current place name. In the PLAC tag itself, you can write the place name as you want to see it in the printouts and lists. In combination with the module SharedPlaces, you only have to maintain place data once.

Best regards
Peter
Peter

webtrees 1.7.18 and 2.0.16, vesta modules
PHP 7.4.3, MySQL 5.7.25
Webhosting: genonline.de

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Locations and hierarchy - Former German areas 3 months 6 days ago #4

  • hermann
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I agree with Greg totally.

Finally, I decided for my data, to use for the "Conclusions" the place hierarchy which is actual today and the language which is the main language at that location today; maybe for a place in Switzerland to use the French city name. And I'm using the custom Vista modules for location records and the GOV .

Adding a GOV Id to every location or location record allows me to display in every event the location where this happened together with the place hierarchies at that time and today side by side. Additionally, the city name, for example, changes its language if the user selects another language in the webtrees user interface (if this information is available in GOV).
webtrees 2.0.16 (all available custom modules installed, php 7.4.15, MySQL 5.6) @ ahnen.hartenthaler.eu/
and webtrees 1.7.18 (many custom modules) @ ahnen1.hartenthaler.eu/

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Locations and hierarchy - Former German areas 3 months 6 days ago #5

  • ric2015
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Some additional information: See here for an example that shows how to use different historical place names within events in combination with a single shared place. Managing shared places like this is possible, but requires more effort than using Gov4Webtrees .
Richard

webtrees 2.0.15 at cissee.de/webtrees2
Vesta custom modules (Classic Look & Feel, Gov4Webtrees, Shared Places, Extended Relationships) available at cissee.de

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Locations and hierarchy - Former German areas 3 months 6 days ago #6

  • ChrisAndersen
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Thanks for your answers and practical hints :-)
...these were really helping.


The structure (Greg) was important to understand.
Gov4WT and shared places (Ric, Hermann, Peter) I will test, definitely.

If I might, I would return with questions, after testing.
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Locations and hierarchy - Former German areas 3 months 5 days ago #7

  • ChrisAndersen
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OK... just tested... nice tools. :-)

I installed GOV4WT for WT1.7.17 (it was all looking/working great in the demo)
and made all the settings like described in the installation manual.

For a short while I could enter some GOV places one by one. Nice that I only have to enter a place only once. :-)
Then I tried to reset (dis-&enable) the module again because I couldn't find the historic map icon.
Then, I couldn't enter GOV places anymore. hmm.

My questions:
1. Where can I find a manual for not to enter all places one by one? (I have too many!)
2. I think I tried all checkboxes... How do I get the GOV enter box back?
3. Where do I enable the historic map icon?
genroot.me/1 (blushing)
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Locations and hierarchy - Former German areas 3 months 5 days ago #8

  • ric2015
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Then I tried to reset (dis-&enable) the module again because I couldn't find the historic map icon.


The linked documentation describes the webtrees 2.x versions of the custom modules. These have many additional features (such as the historic map icon) and are developed actively. Consider switching to webtrees 2.x - I recommend this upgrade anyway.

Regarding entering the GOV-Ids: I'm afraid there is no other way, in either version, than to enter them manually. At least in 2.x, you can follow a link to the GOV search page, based on your place name (I don't remember whether this is possible in 1.x).
Richard

webtrees 2.0.15 at cissee.de/webtrees2
Vesta custom modules (Classic Look & Feel, Gov4Webtrees, Shared Places, Extended Relationships) available at cissee.de

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Locations and hierarchy - Former German areas 3 months 5 days ago #9

  • Sir Peter
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1. Where can I find a manual for not to enter all places one by one? (I have too many!)
2. I think I tried all checkboxes... How do I get the GOV enter box back?
3. Where do I enable the historic map icon?


1. It requires manual maintenance by design. Only if the location is *identical* both in the PLAC tag and in the "valid from ... to ..." timeframe for this location it will automatically show the GOV data that was previously entered elsewhere.
2. Either you don't have the necessary access rights any longer to maintain the GOV data or you need to click on the little red arrows on the right of the already entered GOV data to reset these GOV data.
3. The historic map is only available with the version for webtrees 2.x
Peter

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Locations and hierarchy - Former German areas 3 months 5 days ago #10

  • ChrisAndersen
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Thanks for your answers :-)

After all this good next level functionality has been popping up in WT2, I'd really love to upgrade.
...and the preparations on my testserver are nearly finished.

Just that I still have to wait for the Fancy Treeview upgrade from JustCarmen because my users click it like crazy.
...or is there any other way to realize the treeview like that (with pictures, endless generations, and menue) in WT2?
genroot.me/1 (blushing)
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