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Places, hierarchies and GEDCOM-standards 2 weeks 1 day ago #1

  • Bryld
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Is it still so, that places with geocoordinates cannot be exported in valid GEDCOM?

In my pursuit for a worthy replacement for my regrettably ever more rotting desktop app (Genbox Family History), I am looking for something with good witness and places handling. I am not as interested in reports nor diagrams, as I am in good GEDCOM export, as I shall be presenting my work primarily by Webtrees.

Lately I have tested the rather new Family Historian 7, but I was sad to see, that it still is plainly 32-bit and didn't handle places as niftily as I am used to from my trusty old GFH. One thing, FH7 did "right" was, though, to export places as level 0 items in the gedcom in the form:
0 @Pxxx@ _PLAC something, something higher, something huge, universe

What, I'd like to ask is, if this is valid GEDCOM 5.5.1 or just FH7's implementation of something, that regrettably isn't there in the first place.

What FH7 unfortunately didn't do right for me was to actually split places into higher and lower levels the way "Geographic data" is implemented in Webtrees. I personally believe that a hierarchy structure is essential in place registration.

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Places, hierarchies and GEDCOM-standards 2 weeks 1 day ago #2

  • fisharebest
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There is an unofficial GEDCOM extension called GEDCOM-L.
You can read it at webtrees.net/downloads/gedcom-l.pdf

This defines a "_LOC" record - similar to your "_PLAC".

It is recognised by a number of desktop applications - mostly from German/European authors.

webtrees provides basic support for _LOC records. The 2.1 release should improve on this.

Third-party modules (search "vesta") provide additional support for _LOC records.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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Places, hierarchies and GEDCOM-standards 2 weeks 1 day ago #3

  • fisharebest
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Sorry - I didn't actually answer your question.

I haven't come across this implementation (_PLAC) before, and it is likely that only Genbox can read/write them.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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Places, hierarchies and GEDCOM-standards 2 weeks 23 hours ago #4

  • Bryld
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fisharebest wrote: Sorry - I didn't actually answer your question.

I haven't come across this implementation (_PLAC) before, and it is likely that only Genbox can read/write them.


It wasn't Genbox that I did the export with, it was Family Historian 7. Genbox unfortunately doesn't export/import places as primary records at all.

It would seem that Roots Magic has implemented a somewhat similar export as FH7. We both did discuss it briefly here .

So, in conclusion, no modern desktop genealogy program appears to have implemented a GEDCOM-valid way of exporting and importing places in their own right with map coordinates?

Then, I'll probably wait out another 15 years before replacing my battered old Genbox program. I do own Roots Mgic 7, but it never really clicked with me, and I don't have high hopes for the new version 8 either, I'm afraid. Family Historian 7 was a disappointment, too.

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Places, hierarchies and GEDCOM-standards 2 weeks 22 hours ago #5

  • fisharebest
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> So, in conclusion, no modern desktop genealogy program appears to have implemented a GEDCOM-valid way of exporting and importing places in their own right with map coordinates?

As I said, there is an unofficial standard GEDCOM-L which supports this using _LOC records.

webtrees has very basic support for these records.

But there are some third-party modules for webtrees that provide pretty good support for them.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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Places, hierarchies and GEDCOM-standards 2 weeks 18 hours ago #6

  • hermann
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When you open the GEDCOM Addendum document which Greg cited, you will find all the programs which follow this Addendum to the GEDCOM standard on page 48. There are several desktop programs that are supporting location records (_LOC).

I'm using in webtrees the Vesta modules which are supporting hierarchical locations records, too. These modules are offering an additional link to the GOV location database so that all my requirements are fulfilled by the combination of webtrees and Vesta modules.
webtrees 2.0.15 (all available custom modules installed, php 7.4.15, MySQL 5.6) @ ahnen.hartenthaler.eu/
and webtrees 1.7.18 (many custom modules) @ ahnen1.hartenthaler.eu/

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Places, hierarchies and GEDCOM-standards 2 weeks 18 hours ago #7

  • norwegian_sardines
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Bryld said:

So, in conclusion, no modern desktop genealogy program appears to have implemented a GEDCOM-valid way of exporting and importing places in their own right with map coordinates?

This is a correct statement, because there is no GEDCOM-valid structure that supports exporting stand alone Place Record Structure with coordinates. Several programs have implement various solutions to the GEDCOM design problem but few do it in a consistent way. The GEDCOM-L enhancement to the "Standard" has suggested to the community a way to implement this and webtrees has implemented some of these enhancements.

A future GEDCOM Standard may implement the elevation of the PLAC tag from a value based tag to a pointer tag. Only time will tell!

If I had some level of input into any future versions of GEDCOM this would be my recommendation!
Ken

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Last edit: by norwegian_sardines.
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