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Question cemeteries - GOV

  • mariannevanharten
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2 years 9 months ago #1 by mariannevanharten
cemeteries - GOV was created by mariannevanharten
All cemeteries mentioned in my tree already have a GOV ID.
I am looking for a convenient way to store the burials in my tree. How do I store the cemeteries in my tree and connect them to the burial event?
When I have to store a burial, I may be have only to enter the GOV ID and the date.

0 INDI ...
1 NAME ...
1 BURI
2 DATE 13 JUN 2021
2 CEME @B12345@
...
0 @B12345@ CEME
1 NAME Begraafplaats Rusthof Leusden
1 ADDR Dodeweg 31
2 CITY Leusden
2 MAP
3 LATI N52.1289
3 LONG E5.37563
1 _LOC BEGDE1JO22QD

In this example there is no link between the GOV database and my tree.
What do I have to do to create a connection to the GOV database?

Best regards,
Marianne

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  • thomas52
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2 years 9 months ago #2 by thomas52
Replied by thomas52 on topic cemeteries - GOV
I'm still using v.1.7, and I prefer to track my Cemetery names with the non-standard mod adding the "Cemetery" name to the burial edit, by
/app/config.php - lines 133-134 (lines numbers may vary) to

'CEME' => array(// CEME is NOT a valid 5.5.1 tag\par
'BURI'

I would be interested in knowing if this mod works in v.2.

"Failure is an amazing teacher." (L'échec est un professeur extraordinaire.)

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2 years 9 months ago #3 by Franz Frese

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  • thomas52
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2 years 9 months ago #4 by thomas52
Replied by thomas52 on topic cemeteries - GOV
Thank you.

"Failure is an amazing teacher." (L'échec est un professeur extraordinaire.)

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2 years 9 months ago #5 by Franz Frese

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  • bertkoor
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2 years 9 months ago #6 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic cemeteries - GOV
Can you explain why you have them as a zero-level object? How do you expect webtrees (or any other genealogy program) to work out what it is and what to do with it?

In my opinion cemeteries are "just" places. Treat them as such, and all should work fine.

I'd advice to put the cemetery hierarchically under the town:
Code:
0 INDI ... 1 NAME ... 1 BURI 2 DATE 13 JUN 2021 2 PLAC Begraafplaats Rusthof, Leusden, Utrecht, Nederland 3 ADDR Dodeweg 31 3 _GOV BEGDE1JO22QD

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13

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2 years 9 months ago #7 by ric2015
Replied by ric2015 on topic cemeteries - GOV

How do you expect webtrees (or any other genealogy program) to work out what it is

Good point - Marianne, is this something you came up with yourself, or are these records created by another genealogy program?

There are extensions for top-level places (not cemeteries in particular, but usable for cemeteries) and for GOV-Ids, but they are defined differently.

If you use '_LOC' instead of 'CEME', and '_GOV' instead of '_LOC', you're close to the GEDCOM-L specification, see e.g. here . You'd still have to use PLAC in your burial events though.

Richard

webtrees 2.1.17 at cissee.de/webtrees2
Vesta custom modules (Classic Look & Feel, Gov4webtrees, Shared Places, Extended Relationships) available at cissee.de

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2 years 9 months ago #8 by hermann
Replied by hermann on topic cemeteries - GOV
When you are using location records you can use
Code:
0 INDI ... 1 NAME ... 1 BURI 2 DATE 13 JUN 2021 2 PLAC Begraafplaats Rusthof, Leusden, Utrecht, Nederland 3 ADDR Dodeweg 31 2 _LOC @L1@ 0 @L1@ _LOC 1 _GOV BEGDE1JO22QD 1 NAME Begraafplaats Rusthof Leusden 1 MAP 2 LATI N52.1289 2 LONG E5.37563

Hermann
Designer of the custom module "Extended Family"

webtrees 2.1.19 (all custom modules installed, PHP 8.2, MariaDB 10.6) @ ahnen.hartenthaler.eu

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2 years 9 months ago #9 by rola
Replied by rola on topic cemeteries - GOV

When you are using location records you can use
Code:
0 INDI ... 1 NAME ... 1 BURI 2 DATE 13 JUN 2021 2 PLAC Begraafplaats Rusthof, Leusden, Utrecht, Nederland 3 ADDR Dodeweg 31 2 _LOC @L1@

I think, the _LOC is a subtag of the PLAC tag, so it should be 3_LOC @L1@

Code:
0 @L1@ _LOC 1 _GOV BEGDE1JO22QD 1 NAME Begraafplaats Rusthof Leusden 1 MAP 2 LATI N52.1289 2 LONG E5.37563

The LATI/LONG tags for the cemetery belong to the _LOC record, when you have coordinates for the grave, than they belong as subtags to the PLAC tag.

Ladislav

Ladislav

webtrees 2.0.24 + ⚶ Vesta modules (from cissee.de/ )
testing webtres 2.1.5 + ⚶ Vesta modules
on PHP Version 7.4.28

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  • mariannevanharten
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2 years 9 months ago #10 by mariannevanharten
Replied by mariannevanharten on topic cemeteries - GOV


Good point - Marianne, is this something you came up with yourself, or are these records created by another genealogy program?

I only work in Excel creating my gedcom (using GedTool). The used structure was came up myself.

If you use '_LOC' instead of 'CEME', and '_GOV' instead of '_LOC', you're close to the GEDCOM-L specification, see e.g. here . You'd still have to use PLAC in your burial events though.[/quote]

Because many cemeteries are used very often, I do not like to use them in the INDI record. I am looking for a convenient way to record the cemeteries and assign them with a few lines in the INDI section.
I often don't have LATI/LONG about the single grave; the LATI/LONG are the coordinates of the whole cemetery. Sometimes I have a location of the grave - I use CALN for these situations.

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  • norwegian_sardines
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2 years 9 months ago - 2 years 9 months ago #11 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic cemeteries - GOV
Marianne,

Cemeteries ARE places, just like a city, town or a home, farm. Yes they get reused just like these previously mentioned places.

I’m not sure why you think they are any harder to deal with than a town!

I have several cemeteries where multiple members of my family are buried, one cemetery where half the “population” is family. And I’m sure that some cemeteries in the USA are all the same family.

I use the PLAC tag for all cemeteries, even the plot location within the cemetery.

I also use the non-GEDCOM extension of Vesta to create a PLAC (_LOC) record in the webtrees database (NOT _GOV) to save detail information, pictures of places, (cities, towns, farms, homes) along with stories about these places. None of this requires me to create additional GEDCOM like structures.

I think you are reinventing the wheel in your Excel program.

If you need some additional guidance ask more questions.

EDIT: Fix a wrong comment about _LOC

Ken
Last edit: 2 years 9 months ago by norwegian_sardines.

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2 years 9 months ago - 2 years 9 months ago #12 by hermann
Replied by hermann on topic cemeteries - GOV
@norwegian_sardines: I don't understand your remark "(NOT _LOC)", because location records generated by the Vesta modules are _LOC records.

I've even defined some plot locations at cemeteries as a location record, because there are several family members are buried in one grave. And I'm using PLAC at the BURI event. And btw: ADDR should be on the same level as PLAC and not below it.
Code:
0 INDI ... 1 NAME ... 1 BURI 2 DATE 13 JUN 2021 2 ADDR Dodeweg 31, Leusden 2 PLAC plot 34A, Begraafplaats Rusthof, Leusden, Utrecht, Nederland 3 _LOC @L1@ 0 @L1@ _LOC 1 NAME plot 34A (grave of Joe and Marry Doe) 1 MAP 2 LATI N52.128877 // location of grave 2 LONG E5.3756289 1 _LOC @L2@ 0 @L2@ _LOC 1 _GOV BEGDE1JO22QD 1 NAME Begraafplaats Rusthof Leusden 1 MAP // location of cemetery 2 LATI N52.1289 2 LONG E5.37563 1 _LOC @L3@ // link to location record of city Leusden

Hermann
Designer of the custom module "Extended Family"

webtrees 2.1.19 (all custom modules installed, PHP 8.2, MariaDB 10.6) @ ahnen.hartenthaler.eu
Last edit: 2 years 9 months ago by hermann.

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  • norwegian_sardines
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2 years 9 months ago #13 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic cemeteries - GOV
Herman,

I miss spoke in that it is not a GOV location. It is a _LOC record in the webtrees database. I will fix my comment!

Ken

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  • norwegian_sardines
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2 years 9 months ago - 2 years 9 months ago #14 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic cemeteries - GOV
I don't use or care about the GOV site, I try to keep everything internal to my database as much as possible. Here is what my GEDCOM looks like for the BURI tag, _LOC Tag for the Cemetery, and _LOC tag for the grave itself. I've also included the SOUR and REPO for this information as well.

I think you are confused about the difference between the FACT->SOUR->REPO data used to source the information you collected from the grave marker and the FACT->PLAC->_LOC data used to map the location of a grave.

For sourcing I use the grave marker to as the source (Source_Record) and the repository (Repository_Record) to identify the cemetery. This is standard GEDCOM and will/should work anywhere.

For mapping in webtrees I use the mapping feature of webtrees with the Vesta extension to provide additional detail through the "Shared Places" extension. The coordinates are kept in a separate part of webtrees.
Code:
1 BURI 2 DATE AFT 11 SEP 1869 2 PLAC Ludvig Grave Marker, Egersund Church Yard, Egersund, Eigersund, Rogaland, Norway 3 _LOC @X323@ 2 SOUR @X326@ 3 PAGE First Name on Grave Stone 0 @X326@ SOUR 1 TITL Grave Marker - Egersund Church Yard - Ludvig Feyling 1 REPO @X327@ 2 CALN To the Right of the Main Church Entrance, under a chestnut tree. 0 @X327@ REPO 1 NAME Egersund Church Yard 1 ADDR Strandgaten, 4370 Egersund, Norway 0 @X322@ _LOC 1 NAME Egersund Church Yard 1 _LOC @X258@ 2 TYPE POLI 1 OBJE @X324@ 0 @X323@ _LOC 1 NAME Ludvig Grave Marker 1 _LOC @X322@ 2 TYPE POLI 1 OBJE @X325@ 1 NOTE Norwegian: Gravstedet ligger til høyre ved hoved inngangsdøren til kirken. Barnebarn og oldebarn samlet sammen penger til gravsteinen som ble satt opp i 1918 til 100 års jubileet for Ludvig Feilings død. Sønnesønnen, Claus Aldrich, plantet kastanjetreet som vokser over graven. 2 CONT English: The burial site is located to the right by the main entrance door to the church. Grandchildren and great-grandchildren collected money for the tombstone that was set up in 1918 for the 100th anniversary of Ludvig Feiling's death. The grandson, Claus Aldrich, planted the chestnut tree that grows over the grave.

Because the location of the grave within the cemetery is random, I don't have a plot number in the REPO:CALN tag, but if I did have a row/plot I would have written it out like: 2 CALN Row: 5, Plot:10.

Most of the OBJE tags are to pictures of either the Church, Grave or aerial photos of the surrounding area.

I could have added coordinates for the locations of the church, grave yard and grave marker, this would have been redundant as they are also part of the webtrees based mapping facility that I've used since very early in my use of webtrees.

Ken
Last edit: 2 years 9 months ago by norwegian_sardines.

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  • mariannevanharten
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2 years 9 months ago #15 by mariannevanharten
Replied by mariannevanharten on topic cemeteries - GOV
I am busy to reorganize my gedcom based on your message.
Thank you very much!

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