Web based family history software

Question Engagement without a marriage

  • WGroleau
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2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #1 by WGroleau
Engagement without a marriage was created by WGroleau
Suppose you have a newspaper report of a distant relative getting engaged, but they never married.

Would you record it, or not? Currently, it is a tag available for a FAM but if you want to put it on the INDI, you have to edit raw GEDCOM.

I'd be reluctant to create a FAM for a couple just to record an engagement when they never were really a family. But it's true that engagement is not really a one individual event. Yet it clearly is part of the individual's biography.

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Wes Groleau
UniGen.us/
Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by WGroleau.

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2 years 4 months ago #2 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic Engagement without a marriage
> Would you record it

Yes.

> I'd be reluctant to create a FAM for a couple just to record an engagement when they never were really a family.

Depends how you define "family".

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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  • norwegian_sardines
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2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #3 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic Engagement without a marriage
I would do the same a Greg. “Family” has many definitions, if this couple had been living together, became engaged, and one died before the wedding, would that change something in your construction of the GEDCOM?

Ken
Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by norwegian_sardines.

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  • bertkoor
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2 years 4 months ago #4 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic Engagement without a marriage
These cases certainly deserve further research imho. Can you find out why the marriage bounced? Did they each marry someone else anyway? Is there someone still alive that might know things, like rumours?


> you have to edit raw GEDCOM

For what? Not that I'm aware...
You just add the fiancé like you would add a spouse with the Marriage box unticked. Then go to their Family page, you can add Engagement like you add other events from the drop-down list.

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13

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  • norwegian_sardines
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2 years 4 months ago - 2 years 4 months ago #5 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic Engagement without a marriage
Bert,

I think Wes wants the engagement event to be an Individual Event rather than a "Family" event since no traditional family was created.

Obviously in GEDCOM, the ENGA tag is only associated with a FAM (Family_Record) not an INDI (Individual_Record).

If you don't want to make a new FAM, then two alternatives could be used within GEDCOM for INDI records:
1) Create a custom tag using EVEN/TYPE tags
2) Use an ASSO tag to connect this individual to the other engaged person.

As I said above: I would use the FAM.ENGA tag and add a FAM._NMR tag to indicate they never married. If Wes was to ever learn of the reason for them never marrying then if it could be described in one or two words that could become a subtag "TYPE" under _NMR!

Ken
Last edit: 2 years 4 months ago by norwegian_sardines.

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2 years 4 months ago #6 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic Engagement without a marriage
> and add a FAM._NMR tag to indicate they never married

Unless you have evidence that they never married, I would simply leave this out.
Maybe they married several years later?

The lack of a MARR record is sufficient to indicate that they are not married.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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  • bertkoor
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2 years 4 months ago #7 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic Engagement without a marriage
I had more than one case where I though I found a second spouse and declared the first one deceased. Then after more research and finding conflicting data I had to conclude it was a misunderstanding due to different people having the same name, combined with not enough context data to tell them apart.

Engagement announcements sometimes are very brief. How confident are you this is the person you think it is? Supporting evidence?

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13

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  • WGroleau
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2 years 4 months ago #8 by WGroleau
Replied by WGroleau on topic Engagement without a marriage

I think Wes wants the engagement event to be an Individual Event rather than a "Family" event since no traditional family was created!
Well, maybe. It's clearly an event in that individual's life.  And the fact that they published the announcement in the local paper suggests it wasn't a short-lived fling.  But that newspaper is online, and I find no report of the marriage in it, nor any official record.  This was in the days where living together was scandalous, so unlikely that happened.

I am NOT asking for webtrees to deviate from the spec (by putting ENGA on the INDI menu).  The reason I am reluctant to make a FAM is that the girl is only distantly related and the guy no relation at all. I may do the EVEN route and then change it if ever I find evidence supporting the FAM creation.

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Wes Groleau
UniGen.us/

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