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Question Spanish and Portuguese surnames

  • fisharebest
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1 year 10 months ago - 1 year 10 months ago #1 by fisharebest
Spanish and Portuguese surnames was created by fisharebest
When individuals have two separate surnames, webtrees encourages you to add slashes around each surname.

This allows us to distinguish a name with two surnames from a name with a "double-barrelled" surname.

This isn't technially valid for GEDCOM - which only allows two slashes in a NAME field. But I don't see any alternative.

I asked the GEDCOM 7 committee about this. github.com/FamilySearch/GEDCOM/issues/136

Their response was that there is no way to support this in GEDCOM 5.5.1 or in GEDCOM 7.0.
They are planning to support a wider range of names in a future version (7.1, 8.0, etc.)

Until then, I recommend that Spanish and Portuguese users continue to mark both surnames with slashes.
If your data is consistent, we will be able to automatically update it whenever a new version of GEDCOM arrives.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net
Last edit: 1 year 10 months ago by fisharebest.

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2 months 1 week ago #2 by nagarrido
Replied by nagarrido on topic Spanish and Portuguese surnames
Hi! Are there any news regarding this? Should I just put both surnames in the NAME field, or SURNAME?

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2 months 1 week ago - 2 months 1 week ago #3 by Sir Peter
Replied by Sir Peter on topic Spanish and Portuguese surnames
Is there anyone with a Spanish or Portuguese background that can tell us
a) how the name of Óscar Arnulfo Romero y Galdámez would be recorded on a passport or another official document that differentiates between first name and surname(s),
b) how his surname(s) would be indexed in a modern computer system in Spain or Portugal?I think to remember that there is only ONE surname field which makes me believe that Romero y Galdámez is ONE (new) surname that was built from two surnames, but it’s still ONE surname.

Peter
Last edit: 2 months 1 week ago by Sir Peter.

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2 months 1 week ago #4 by nagarrido
Replied by nagarrido on topic Spanish and Portuguese surnames
I'm from a Spanish-culture country (Chile), and Óscar Arnulfo Romero y Galdámez may be recorded as:

Names:
Arnulfo
Romero

Last names:
Romero
Galdámez

The rule is that if his father had first surname "Romero" and his mother had first surname "Galdámez", both are recorded. I don't really know what happens with the "y" as it is probably an informal addition to the last name (not sure, maybe someone from Spain can confirm if this is common there), but I think that in official records it would probably be dropped and both surnames would be recorded as different.

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2 months 1 week ago #5 by Bernat
Replied by Bernat on topic Spanish and Portuguese surnames
Vamos a ver si puedo ayudar un poco.
En España (desde el siglo XIX) se usan los dos apellidos (El del padre) + (El de la madre). Así que “Óscar Arnulfo Romero y Galdámez” es como decir que “Óscar Arnulfo” es hijo de un padre apellidado “Romero” y una madre apellidada “Galdámez”.
La “y” entre el primer apellido y el segundo se utilizaba antiguamente (hasta mediados del siglo XX), pero dejó de utilizarse en el último tercio porque creaba problemas con los sistemas informáticos del momento (Policía, DNI, etc.…) Excepto en las regiones de habla catalana que se sigue utilizando. Por ejemplo: mi nombre es “Bernat Josep Banyuls i Sala”, y así consta en toda mi documentación. Pero es verdad que, en la actualidad, en español, se intenta eliminar esta “y”.
Otra curiosidad es que en el mundo universitario, por ejemplo, se empiezan a unir los dos apellidos con el signo “-“. Es decir, cuando publico algún trabajo firmo como “Bernat Josep Banyuls-Sala” y esto es porque los buscadores facilitan mi identificación al disponer de un solo apellido. Esto no es ninguna ley, pero cada vez resulta más normal encontrar autores con esta triquiñuela.
Por todo ello, al iniciar webtrees decidí registrar mis nombres con un solo separador “/” entre nombres y apellidos. (Bernat Josep /Banyuls i Sala). Me ha ido bien y sigo con esa regla. No sé si me estaré equivocando y por ello pido también vuestra opinión. De momento, estoy satisfecho en los resultados tanto en consultas, listados, etc... Al final, la cultura anglosajona suele ganar y debemos unificar criterios, al menos, en este aspecto. Así y todo, somos afortunados en el hecho de que las mujeres no obtienen el apellido del marido. Eso simplifica mucho las cosas, la verdad...

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  • Franz Frese
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2 months 1 week ago - 2 months 1 week ago #6 by Franz Frese
Replied by Franz Frese on topic Spanish and Portuguese surnames
The spanish ID-card (Documento Nacional de Identidad) contains the last names

All Spanish citizens are required to have two last names, !!!plural
last names == surnames == apellidos
got at birth fathers surname and mothers surname.

the opposite order of last names for Portugal

@Bernat "que las mujeres no obtienen el apellido del marido" is a problem for the Postman in Germany as there may be only the surname of the husband on the letterbox...
btw: Have a look at  Urquizár  . Mother and daughter are found by searching !
Last edit: 2 months 1 week ago by Franz Frese.

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2 months 1 week ago #7 by herver
Replied by herver on topic Spanish and Portuguese surnames
Hello, I tell you what it is like today in Argentina. For a few years, the double surname has been used, but not necessarily. Until the civil code changed, only the father's last name was used, but then double surnames were allowed, with a difference compared to other places. When a first child is born, you can choose whether it will take the surname of the father, the mother or both, and you can choose the order if the father's or the mother's comes first. But once a child has a surname, what was chosen for the siblings must be respected as long as the parents are the same. When someone has a double surname and has a child, they can choose to have both, or just one along with the other parent.
Greetings

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