Web based family history software

Question Translation into Dutch

  • rola
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11 years 10 months ago #41 by rola
Replied by rola on topic Re: Translation into Dutch

HRN wrote: @fisharebest

In Norwegian (and the other Scandinavian languages?) the term "removed" is not used to indicate that the two people are from different generations.
A first cousin once removed ascending is reffered to as mother's (or father's) cousin. A cousin twice removed ascending is reffered to as grandmother's (or grandfather's) cousin etc...
A third cousin twice removed descending would be reffered to as third cousin's grandson/granddaughter etc...


Also Slovak, Czech and Hungarian have no "removed" - text like "father's cousin" are used for translation of the string no 3829 "first cousin once removed ascending" (and following).

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11 years 10 months ago #42 by HRN
Replied by HRN on topic Re: Translation into Dutch

...and if you'd like to document these in a nice clear chart for me - that would be excellent!


chart sent by e-mail

webtrees 2.1.18 at visitusinmaputo.com/webtree PHP 8.1.27
webtrees 2.1 dev on local Wampserver 3.3.2 PHP 8.2.13/8.3.0 MySQL 8.2.0

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11 years 10 months ago #43 by WGroleau
Replied by WGroleau on topic Re: Translation into Dutch

In [various languages] the term "removed" is not used

Of course not, it's an English word. :-)

Seriously, we don't translate words, we translate ideas and concepts.

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Wes Groleau
UniGen.us/

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11 years 10 months ago #44 by rola
Replied by rola on topic Re: Translation into Dutch
Perhaps it is a surprise to you, but we know, that "removed" is an English word. :-)

But seriously, translating a software is also about translating words, mostly you have not enough place to bring in your ideas and concepts.
And our message about "removed" was - the concept of "n-th cousin x-times removed" in a lot of languages is uncommon even not understandable. And the best translation is "n-th cousin of a y×grand parent". It is not possible to change the translation in this way without a change in the software.


Ladislav

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11 years 10 months ago #45 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic Re: Translation into Dutch
<<It is not possible to change the translation in this way without a change in the software.>>

Which is why I plan to change the software :-)

But I have been very busy recently, and do not have enough time :-(

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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11 years 10 months ago #46 by WGroleau
Replied by WGroleau on topic Re: Translation into Dutch
Not a surprise to me that you know it, but it would also not surprise me if you had meant what you seemed to mean.

I have been often amazed to see completely ungrammatical translations in both English and Spanish produced by native speakers. Not in webtrees, but in many other places, including commercially produced books. Some of them are even worse than the output of the Google translator.

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Wes Groleau
UniGen.us/

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  • wimniny
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11 years 10 months ago #47 by wimniny
Replied by wimniny on topic Re: Translation into Dutch
Hi all.

I speak/read/write Dutch, English and German fluently, i can make myself understood in Norwegian, Spanish and French as well.
As I worked for ESA 23 years (where the lingua franca is English) I can say that my command of the english language is pretty good.
So I know what the word "removed" signifies and that it is an english word.
The problem I have is that it is very difficult to translate into dutch for the context it is being used in here.
The verb "to remove" in dutch is "verwijderen". This verb has two uses in dutch nl.:
1. For removal like "I will have it removed" (taken away)
2. Or for distance between places. A place X is Y miles "verwijderd" from place Z, where verwijderd is "removed"

It is NOT used for the way english speakers use it in genealogy! I have asked people in the newgroup soc.genealogy.benelux how those terms with removed in them could be translated. I asked the same question to the Central Bureau of Genealog in The Hague. Both times I have not gotten an answer.
So, there is no system in dutch by which cousins can be accurately be described. Sorry.

Regards, Wim

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11 years 10 months ago #48 by kiwi
Replied by kiwi on topic Re: Translation into Dutch
Wim

I think that Wes is trying to explain that you do not HAVE to translate "removed". Clearly the relationships we English describe as "removed" do exist in Holland (the physical people exist), so the "translation" is to call their relationship whatever is appropriate in Dutch, instead of trying to translate the actual words we use. To put it another way, we need to ignore the English words completely and add whatever is necessary / appropriate for Dutch.

What Greg has been saying is that this is often difficult to do just now, because the translation software needs re-writing, and that he will be doing that in the future.

So for now, if it can't be done (and we rely on your expertise / knowledge to say that), leave it until Greg is able to give you a better tool.

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11 years 10 months ago #49 by wimniny
Replied by wimniny on topic Re: Translation into Dutch
Hello all,

I have just been working on a new proposal for the translation of certain terms from English into Dutch. I have attached files in which everything is explained.
Pleas have a look at it and let me know what you think of it please.

Kind regards, Wim.
Attachments:

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11 years 10 months ago #50 by wimniny
Replied by wimniny on topic Re: Translation into Dutch
I tried to send an docx file, but that did not work, of course, I hope this will work though

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11 years 10 months ago #51 by wimniny
Replied by wimniny on topic Re: Translation into Dutch
Once more, last try
Attachments:

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11 years 10 months ago #52 by wimniny
Replied by wimniny on topic Re: Translation into Dutch
I forgot to include some examples, here they are:

1. niece thrice removed ascending becomes betovergrootvader zuster's dochter (vaders kant)
2. nephew 4 times removed ascending becomes oudgrootmoeder's kleinzoon (vaders kant)
3. nephew thrice removed ascending becomes betovergrootvader's zuster's zoon (moeders kant)
4. achternicht twice removed ascending becomes betovergrootvader's zuster's kleindochter (moeders kant)

Regards, Wim

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11 years 10 months ago #53 by wimniny
Replied by wimniny on topic Re: Translation into Dutch
Hi all,

After I had written previous examples, I realized I had made a mistake.
In the first example , the sister of my betovergrootvader is my betovergroottante,
therefore shortening the sentence to "betovergroottante's dochter".
The same goes for nrs. 3 and 4.
The words "moeders kant" or "vaders kant" signify whether those people stem from the mother's side of the family, or the father's side.

Sorry for the confusion, regards, Wim.

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11 years 6 months ago #54 by leozwaga
Replied by leozwaga on topic Re: Translation into Dutch
Does anyone really want to know how a relationship is called?
Why not add a chart as sort of help screen like the one Wim (wimniny) made. ( Familierelaties1f.jpg )

"great-aunt's son's wife's son" is a difficult thing to picture (as an example). So why not drop the title (name of the relation).

I find it untranslatable. The chart webtrees makes is understandable.

The chart is translatable

Leo
webtrees 1.7.9
Php: 7.0.22
MySQL: 5.6.36
(on 20-9-2017)

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11 years 6 months ago - 11 years 6 months ago #55 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic Re: Translation into Dutch
I wrote a long reply to this, but my login session timed-out while I was writing it, and it was lost :-(

To summarise.

1) I am working on it.
2) I need more information about the names that each language uses for relationships. See wiki.webtrees.net/Translating_relationships

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net
Last edit: 11 years 6 months ago by fisharebest.

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11 years 5 months ago #56 by wimniny
Replied by wimniny on topic Translation into Dutch
Hello everybody,

To my surprise the dutch term for baptism (gedoopt) has been changed into "doopsel". This is a term which is almost exclusively used by catholics. Most all of my relatives are either Jewish or tied to some form of reformed church, NO catholics. So, I would like to change this (I already have in Launchpad) on the server WT is running on. I cannot look into mo files however, so vcannot see where to change things.
Is there a possibility for me to change this in the dutch mo file?

Thanks in advance, regards, Wim.

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11 years 5 months ago #57 by ToyGuy
Replied by ToyGuy on topic Translation into Dutch
Perfect example of where you should use your custom language file and forget about the broadly applied translation.
Please understand that translations must be generally acceptable and not focused to a particular faith.

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11 years 5 months ago #58 by leozwaga
Replied by leozwaga on topic Translation into Dutch

wimniny wrote: Hello everybody,

To my surprise the dutch term for baptism (gedoopt) has been changed into "doopsel". This is a term which is almost exclusively used by catholics. Most all of my relatives are either Jewish or tied to some form of reformed church, NO catholics. So, I would like to change this (I already have in Launchpad) on the server WT is running on. I cannot look into mo files however, so vcannot see where to change things.
Is there a possibility for me to change this in the dutch mo file?

Thanks in advance, regards, Wim.


My mistake. I'll change it back.

Leo
webtrees 1.7.9
Php: 7.0.22
MySQL: 5.6.36
(on 20-9-2017)

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11 years 5 months ago #59 by wimniny
Replied by wimniny on topic Translation into Dutch
Hi Leo,

No need, I've changed all occurances already, but please check whether everything is as it should be, I might have forgotten one.
However, I do not want to wait until the next revision of WT comes out, so I would like to edit the mo file, except I do not have any program
that can open an mo file, let alone edit it.

Regards, Wim.

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11 years 5 months ago #60 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic Translation into Dutch
If the translations in launchpad are now correct, you can download a .MO file directly from launchpad.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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