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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 4 weeks 1 day ago #1

  • Franz Frese
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Die Überschrift nach dem Klicken auf Ahnentafel im Menü lautet "Stammbaum von xxxxx". "Stammbaum" sollte durch "Ahnentafel" oder "Vorfahren von xxxx" ersetzt werden.
The heading after clicking on Pedigree in the menu reads "Pedigree tree of xxxxx". The translation here should be like of "Ancestors of xxxx".
"Stammbaum" in Germany means the "descendants" - tree.

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 4 weeks 1 day ago #2

Under translate.webtrees.net/projects/webtrees/webtrees/de/ you can correct the translation.



I have solved this so far with a custom translation or use the charts of Magicsunday.
Martin - ffp.bauschaffen.de
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Last edit: by mp.

Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 4 weeks 9 hours ago #3

As suggestion:

'My pedigree' => 'Meine Abstammung',
'Pedigree' => 'Abstammung',
'Pedigree chart' => 'Ahnentafel',
'Pedigree map' => 'Ahnenkarte',
'Pedigree map of %s' => 'Ahnenkarte von %s',
'Pedigree tree of %s' => 'Ahnentafel von %s',
'Pedigree of %s' => 'Abstammung von %s',

If there are no suggestions for changes, I can include this in the translation.
Martin - ffp.bauschaffen.de

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 4 weeks 9 hours ago #4

  • wsb56
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Martin,
good proposal. Thanks a lot.
Bernd

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 4 weeks 8 hours ago #5

  • Franz Frese
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Das scheint besser zu sein. Wenn dann auch noch die jetzigen Menüpunkte "Vorfahren" und "Ahnentafel" angeglichen würden. Die Sortierung nach Alphabet ist zwar eine Möglichkeit, aber eine feste Gruppierung würde mir besser gefallen.

That seems better. If the current menu items "Ancestors" and "Pedigree" were also adjusted. Sorting by alphabet is a possibility, but I would prefer a fixed grouping.

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 4 weeks 6 hours ago #6

  • Franz Frese
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As suggestion:

'My pedigree' => 'Meine Vorfahren', Wo kommt das vor?
'Pedigree' => 'Vorfahren',
'Pedigree chart' => 'Vorfahren Baumansicht',
'Pedigree map' => 'Vorfahren Landkarte',
'Pedigree map of %s' => 'Landkarte der Vorfahren von %s',
'Pedigree tree of %s' => 'Baumansicht der Vorfahren von %s',
'Pedigree of %s' => 'Vorfahren von %s', Wo kommt das vor?

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 4 weeks 3 hours ago #7

  • wsb56
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Ebensogut. Kann ich auch prima mit leben.;-)

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 4 weeks 2 hours ago #8

But what is the difference between „Pedigree“ and „Ancestor“?

If there is one, different terms should also be used in German.

Until clarification, you can already use your suggestions in a custom translation. There is an example module for this under /modules_v4.
Martin - ffp.bauschaffen.de

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 4 weeks 1 hour ago #9

  • Sir Peter
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Apologies for jumping in here, but the German translation for pedigree is not Vorfahren. I strongly believe that a translation should work forwards and backwards. And as the most common English translation for Vorfahren is ancestors, we'd end up with something like pedigree -> Vorfahren -> ancestors. At least for me that doesn't look right.

I perceive pedigree as a confusing term providing no benefit at all. Valid German translations are Herkunft, Abstammung and when used with dogs even Rasse (engl. race, breed) is used. I think this connotation should be avoided. Tree is another confusing term as it is often not clear to an unexperienced user which individual would be in the root and which individuals (ancestors or descendants) would be in the leaves.

I therefore suggest to get rid of the terms pedigree and tree completely and just use ancestors -> Vorfahren and descendants -> Nachfahren. Alternatively ancestors -> Ahnen and descendants -> Nachkommen could be used, but I wouldn't mix those terms and I personally perceive Ahnen and Nachkommen somewhat old school although I admit there exist fixed terms like Ahnentafel. Replacing pedigree by ancestors would lead to something like

'My pedigreeancestors' => 'Meine Vorfahren' or 'Meine Ahnen',
'PedigreeAncestors' => 'Vorfahren' or 'Ahnen',
'PedigreeAncestors chart' => 'Vorfahren-Diagramm' or 'Ahnentafel',
'PedigreeAncestors map' => 'Vorfahren-Landkarte' or 'Ahnenlandkarte',
...

I'd then apply the same schema to the descendants related terms. Hope this will help to find a consistent approach for all languages.
Peter

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 3 weeks 6 days ago #10

  • hermann
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... good points, Sir Peter! This would be much better, maybe not only in German and English, but maybe offers better possibilities for translation in other languages, too.
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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 3 weeks 6 days ago #11

With "Pedigree" it's a little bit complicated.

Some time ago I raised this question, not sure if this was solved.
www.webtrees.net/index.php/en/forum/8-tr...g-for-pedigree#75460
webtrees 2.0.16 + ⚶ Vesta modules (from cissee.de/)
on PHP Version 7.3.14

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 3 weeks 6 days ago #12

  • Franz Frese
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Sir Peter bringt es auf den Punkt: Ursache ist die Verwendung des Wortes "pedigree" als Basis für die Übersetzungen, weil es im Englischen je nach Zusammenhang unterschiedliche Bedeutungen hat und somit unterschiedlich übersetzt werden muss. Damit der Zusammenhang für die Übersetzer klarer wird, ist es natürlich, wenn möglich, am schönsten das Original eineindeutig übersetzbar zu haben.

Sir Peter puts it in a nutshell: The reason is the use of the word "pedigree" as the basis for the translations, because in English it has different meanings depending on the context and therefore has to be translated differently. To make the context clearer for the translator, it is natural, to have the original unambiguously translatable, if possible.

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 3 weeks 3 days ago #13

  • fisharebest
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> I therefore suggest to get rid of the terms pedigree and tree completely and just use ancestors

We have lots of charts that show ancestors

fanchart
compact chart
ancestors - 3 versions: tree, individuals and families
pedigree
pedigree map

When you have multiple ancestors (birth, adopted, disupted), then the "ancestors" chart can show all of them.
But the other charts have a fixed layout, and can show only the primary parents.

If we rename "pedigree" to "ancestors", and "pedigree map" to "ancestors map", then we still have the existing "ancestors" chart (with tree/individuals/families).

Perhaps we could move this to the lists menu? It has similaries with the "branches" list.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 3 weeks 1 day ago #14

  • Sir Peter
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... we still have the existing "ancestors" chart (with tree/individuals/families).

Perhaps we could move this to the lists menu? It has similaries with the "branches" list.


I understand the benefit that the existing "ancestors" chart menu item (with tree/individuals/families) provides compared to those charts with a fixed layout. While its tree like representation is really a chart, the individuals/families representations are actually lists. I don't want to make it more complex than it already is, but what about keeping the existing "ancestors" chart menu item (with tree only) in the charts menu and moving the existing "ancestors" chart (with individuals/families only) to the lists menu.
Peter

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 3 weeks 1 day ago #15

  • fisharebest
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> what about keeping the existing "ancestors" chart menu item (with tree only) in the charts menu

But if we just rename the "Pedigree" chart to "Ancestors", then we will have two charts called "Ancestors"...
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 3 weeks 1 day ago #16

  • Sir Peter
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The former pedigree chart could become an "Ancestors chart" (classic tree view with primary/direct parents or "bloodline" only, correct?) and the former "Ancestors" chart could become an "Ancestors extended chart" with multiple ancestors (birth, adopted, disupted). Let's try to find an agreement for the English menu items first.

Proposal for the menu Charts (because under this menu there are books, charts, statistics, etc. I suggest to use the word "chart" for a menu item whenever it applies):
Fan chart -> Ancestors fan chart
Compact chart - > Ancestors compact chart
Ancestors - 3 versions: tree, individuals and families -> Ancestors extended chart (tree option only, move individuals/families options to lists)
Pedigree -> Ancestors chart (this is the classic tree view)
Pedigree map -> Ancestors map

This would automatically sort into:
Ancestors chart => 'Vorfahren' or 'Ahnentafel'
Ancestors compact chart => 'Vorfahren, kompakt' or 'Ahnen, kompakt'
Ancestors extended chart => 'Vorfahren, erweitert' or 'Ahnen, erweitert'
Ancestors fan chart => 'Vorfahrenfächer' or 'Ahnenfächer'
Ancestors map => 'Vorfahrenkarte' or 'Ahnenkarte'

Proposal for menu Lists (these are all lists, so we don't need the word "list" for every single menu item):
Ancestors (no tree, only the individuals/families options) => 'Ahnenliste'

Am I still missing something? If that proposal is approved I can provide a proposal for the German translations. I think the same schema could be applied to the descendants charts.
Peter

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 3 weeks 1 day ago #17

  • hermann
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Sounds very good for me!
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and webtrees 1.7.18 (many custom modules) @ ahnen1.hartenthaler.eu/

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Menu: Ahnentafel (falsche Übersetzung) | Menu: Pedigree (wrong translation) 3 weeks 1 day ago #18

  • Franz Frese
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+1 for Sir Peter!

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