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spouse versus partner 2 weeks 2 days ago #1

  • hermann
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If you are on the page of a female person and select the tab "Families" then there is an option "Add a husband". In my opinion, this wording should be changed to "Add a partner".

It is not clear in this situation whether you like to add a married partner (husband) or a non-married partner; and even worse: maybe you like to add another woman to this female person, then "husband" is not correct.
Hermann
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spouse versus partner 1 week 3 days ago #2

Is webtrees following strictly the GEDCOM standard by listing this as only husband (HUSB) and wife (WIFE)? But I agree partner would be better suited in these instances but the limited and strict GEDCOM standard is perhaps preventing this, I'm only guessing here since I'm not a GEDCOM expert. Greg could possibly expand on this and better explain it.

It appears according to the standard a family is comprised of a husband, a wife and a child. The husband is a male and the wife is a female and that is very strict based on the reality of family combinations today.

Good point though Hermann.
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spouse versus partner 1 week 3 days ago #3

  • fisharebest
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GEDCOM 5.5.1 required that a family was one man and one woman.

webtrees ignores this, and allows same-sex families.

GEDCOM 7.0 also allows same-sex families.

> If you are on the page of a female person and select the tab "Families" then there is an option "Add a husband". In my opinion, this wording should be changed to "Add a partner".

The link is called "add a husband" (for women) or "add a wife" (for men) or "add a spouse" (if the sex is unknown).

The next page then allows you to add a married or unmarried individual, who may be male, female, unknown or other.

That's a lot of options...

We could change the link to "Add a husband/wife/spouse/male partner/female partner/unknown-sex partner".

Yes, it would be more correct/accurate. But it is too many words for a simple link or menu item.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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spouse versus partner 1 week 2 days ago #4

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Yes, "Add a husband/wife/spouse/male partner/female partner/unknown-sex partner" would be correct and is too long. I suggested “Add a partner”. That is short. And for me “partner” can be everything, a husband, wife, married, not-married, male, female, …
Hermann
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spouse versus partner 1 week 2 days ago #5

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> And for me “partner” can be everything

Does this work for other languages?

Many require different words for male/female.

In others, the translation for "partner" might explicitly mean "unmarried partner".
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spouse versus partner 1 week 2 days ago #6

> Does this work for other languages?

I can only speak for the Icelandic language and partner (or “maki” in Icelandic) works in all instances whether for husband, wife, married, not-married, male, female and same sex or unknown sex couples.

But this could be different in other languages as stated by Greg.

In Icelandic, husband translates to a married male (eiginmaður) and wife translates to a married female (eiginkona). So when creating a family in webtrees (or adding a husband or a wife) in Icelandic it translates to creating a married couple which are specifically male and female.
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spouse versus partner 1 week 2 days ago #7

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> Does this work for other languages?

I can only speak for the German language. In German "Partner" (the translation of "partner") is an umbrella term and can be used for husband, wife, married, not-married, male, female and same-sex or unknown sex couples. It is not necessary to add "male" or "female" to "Partner".
Hermann
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spouse versus partner 1 week 2 days ago #8

Also in norwegian pertner is neutral, and will cover all options (married or unmarried)
If married, I guess the closest term in English would be spose:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spouse
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spouse versus partner 1 week 2 days ago #9

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> Does this work for other languages?

I can only speak for the German language. In German "Partner" (the translation of "partner") is an umbrella term and can be used for husband, wife, married, not-married, male, female and same-sex or unknown sex couples. It is not necessary to add "male" or "female" to "Partner".

The same applies for Dutch.

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spouse versus partner 1 week 2 days ago #10

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I think they are two subjects in the topics: do not assume the marriage, and replace "add a husband/wife" by "add a partner" on one side, and the gender of the other partner, on the other side.

I do not have an issue with the first point of not assuming the marriage, and replace "husband/wife" by a more generic term.
In French, we would need to determine whether we settle on "concubin" or "partenaire" (the former is the current translation, but the latter is suggested as well, and may be a bit more modern). They would not be necessarily be used by married partners, but I feel this would still be fine to use them as the generic term in that context (it is gendered though, see below).

For the gender of the other partner, and the potential issue with languages, I am a bit more reserved.
In French, the translation would be different for male & female: "Add a (male) partner" would be " Ajouter un concubin/partenaire", and "Add a (female) partner" would be "Ajouter une concubine/partenaire", even though technically, in traditional French, the masculine form could be used as the generic term, or some could suggest an inclusive form, but either options are a controversial subject. As always, unknown sex is not something handled very well in French, and we could have to end up with "Ajouter un(e) concubin(e)/partenaire".

Independently of the language, there is a user experience point I would like to raise if we stick with a non-gendered single button : the large majority of my genealogy is not in recent times, so when I add a partner, 99 % of the time, this is an individual of the opposite sex (and I expect most genealogies are in that case). I would therefore prefer webtrees to remain opiniated on that front, and the opposite sex to be the default selected sex when adding a partner, and for the user to change explicitly for same-sex partners.
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Last edit: by jon48.

spouse versus partner 1 week 1 day ago #11

  • fisharebest
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> In French, the translation would be different for male & female: "Ajouter un(e) concubin(e)"

This is the sort of "ugly" construction that I want to avoid.

For applications that are designed to work in only one language,

> when I add a partner, 99 % of the time, this is an individual of the opposite sex

And for historic data, I guess 99% are also married.
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spouse versus partner 1 week 1 day ago #12

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We could change the link to "Add a husband/wife/spouse/male partner/female partner/unknown-sex partner".

Yes, it would be more correct/accurate. But it is too many words for a simple link or menu item.
I would suggest "Add spouse/partner" to make it more clear. On the next page after selecting a person, you can additionally check if there is a same-sex relationship. If yes, a hint can be displayed for information.
Peter

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spouse versus partner 1 week 1 day ago #13

> This is the sort of "ugly" construction that I want to avoid.

> For applications that are designed to work in only one language,

If I'm not mistaken then by changing only four lines in each language file (if applicable based on each country specific needs) then "Spouse/Partner" change can be accomplished without changing the webtrees core code, see the following lines (translation based on Icelandic (Spouse/Parter => maka):
'Add a husband' => 'Bæta við nýjum maka',
'Add a husband using an existing individual' => 'Bæta fyrirliggjandi persónu við sem maka',

'Add a wife' => 'Bæta við nýjum maka',
'Add a wife using an existing individual' => 'Bæta fyrirliggjandi persónu við sem maka',

In english this would translate to:
'Add a husband' => 'Add a spouse/partner',
'Add a husband using an existing individual' => 'Add a spouse/partner using an existing individual',

'Add a wife' => 'Add a spouse/partner',
'Add a wife using an existing individual' => 'Add a spouse/partner using an existing individual',

This would at least better address Icelandic custom/tradition when couples partnership is being established regardless of the couples gender or whether they are married or not. Regarding the gender it can then easily be changed in the next page of establishing couples partnership whether male, female or unknown.

This works, as far as I can see, for Icelandic.
Gudjon
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