Web based family history software

Question French translation - not important but bugs me

  • Jackie
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13 years 2 months ago #1 by Jackie
The words media and multimedia come from Latin. webtrees French translation shows the plural of those words either with or without the letter S.

I checked different dictionaries to find the right orthograph, actually it varies from one dictionary to another for the word media. Multimedia is mostly always the same.

The word media is the plural form of the latin word medium and the word multimedia refers to « many » as the latin word « multi » means many. So, it seems that the French orthograph of those words is for now in a « grey area » as other foreign words (for example, spaghetti).

Larousse dictionary shows « un média, des médias » and « multimédia » invariable.

Question :
So, is it possible to adopt one plural form and stick to it all over the webtrees French translation ?

Other words that bug me are the French words for email, for download and upload. In webtrees French translation, for the word email there is sometimes, email, mail, courriel or e-mail; for dowload and upload the word télécharger is used. It is not always clear for the admin unless the destination is specified (to your computer or to the distant server).

The Office de la langue française du Québec adopted the words : courriel, télécharger and téléverser. I don't know the official words for French from France.

Courriel = courrier électronique (to distinguish a message from the ground mail which is the French word courrier)

Télécharger (or téléchargement) = download to your local computer

Téléverser (or téléversement) = upload to the distant server

Using télécharger and téléverser will avoid confusion, it won't be necessary to specify the destination, and the French sentences will be shorter.

Question :
So, is it possible to adopt one word and stick to it all over the webtrees French translation ?

I don't mind which word will be adopted as long as we are consistent all over webtrees. Am I wrong ?

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13 years 2 months ago #2 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic Re: French translation - not important but bugs me
Hi Jackie.

<<I don't mind which word will be adopted as long as we are consistent>>

My attitude exactly! The other developers will confirm that I bug them frequently over language details like this.

In fact, this morning, I bugged one of them over "Media object" vs "Multimedia object", and whether to use "administer", "configure", "manage", etc. Consistency is important, especially when you have a complicated application and novice users.

As for couriel / email, etc., it would be for the native speakers to decide. I am sure fa10175 will have an opinion. Out of interest, my (French teacher) girlfriend says that both are used, couriel is "more correct", but email is "more common".

BTW, how much does fr_FR differ from fr_CA? We maintain both en_GB and en_AU, even though there are only 10-20 differences. We could easily add a fr_CA translation, but we would need a volunteer with the commitment to maintain it. Otherwise we would be better off concentrating all our efforts on a single fr translation.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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  • Jackie
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13 years 2 months ago - 13 years 2 months ago #3 by Jackie
Hi Greg,

BTW, how much does fr_FR differ from fr_CA?


Not that much to maintain two fr files. I mean the written language. Spoken language is something else and is not the point here.

Anyway, most of people interested in genealogy and history are well educated and read a lot. So, their knowledge of the language is vast and they can understand specific French words from France. I don't know the exact statistics but I think 40% of the Quebec population speaks or at least understands English. Canada has two official languages, French and English.

French speaking people in Quebec use courriel or email, less frequently mail; but they understand what it means. I can't talk for French people from France though. I really don't mind the chosen word for webtrees. It is just a matter of being sure which word to use when we translate text and always use the same all over webtrees.

webtrees will look more professional being consistent.
Last edit: 13 years 2 months ago by Jackie.

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13 years 2 months ago - 13 years 2 months ago #4 by jon48
Hello Jacky,

Funny to write to you on this forum rather than the French PGV one! ;)

I completely agree with the necessity of a standardisation of the terms used within webtrees, and the sooner it can be done in WT lifecycle the better it is. We could also take advantage of its early stage to redefine some of the them, in coordination with the users. I remember having translation "Shared Notes" by "Notes partagées" when it appeared in PGV, but this was a personal translation, and we might find a more appropriate wording.

Concerning the Quebecois/French dilemna, I do not mean to be rude or disdainful for our dear cousins of Quebec, but in case two separate languages are not created, I would prefer the translations to be based on the French habits and conventions (a bit more consensual in my opinion). I reckon - an congratulate you for it - that Quebec people are stricter in gallicizing words than we are ourselves, in France, but using "courrier électronique/courriel" (even if completely correct) might sound a bit weird/old-fashioned for the John Doe user, and I did not even know the word "téléverser" until you mentioned it on the French forum.
Managing two separate French translation files might be a bit time-consuming for few differences at the end of the day. Isn't it possible to create a standard French file and have a kind of sub-file which inherits from the standard one and where only the differences are translated (like it used to work in PGV for languages other than English)?

Regards.

Jonathan
genea.jaubart.com - Famille Jaubart-Rousset en Lozère - webtrees 2.1.18 (modifié - GitHub repo , thème Rural)
Local: Ubuntu 22.04 - Apache 2.4 - PHP 8.1 - MySQL 8.0 / Public: FastComet
Last edit: 13 years 2 months ago by jon48.

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13 years 2 months ago #5 by Jackie
Hi Jonathan,

Well, my message was more about consistency than having two fr files, which will be too much work. As I said, using email, mail or whatever you want, but the point is to use always the same all over webtrees. Even if we use the words upload and download instead of téléverser or télécharger, Quebecers and French will understand as those words are known all over the world. it is a matter of sticking to the same word all over webtrees.

Voilà !

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13 years 2 months ago - 13 years 2 months ago #6 by WGroleau

Isn't it possible to create a standard French file and have a kind of sub-file which inherits from the standard one and where only the differences are translated

I don't think so (someone who knows correct me), but you could
1. create the new file
2. download both languages as PO
3. Carefully copy header data from the new dialect to the header of the old one.
4. Upload the modified old one to the new language
5. Edit the translations that need to be different.

From that point on, though, both dialects would have to be maintained separately.

--
Wes Groleau
UniGen.us/
Last edit: 13 years 2 months ago by WGroleau.

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13 years 2 months ago #7 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic Re: French translation - not important but bugs me
<<I completely agree with the necessity of a standardisation of the terms used within webtrees>>

The WIKI already has a section for translation guidelines: wiki.webtrees.net/Category:Translation_Guidelines

You can create a page for "French Translation", and record your decisions there.

<<Isn't it possible to create a standard French file and have a kind of sub-file which inherits from the standard one and where only the differences are translated>>

No. The two translations are maintained separately. There are tools and techniques that can minimise the amount of work, but extra work will be required.

Perhaps it would be best to review and standardise the fr_FR translation first. When this is done, perhaps we can look at the fr_FR/fr_CA question again in 6 months or a year?

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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