Web based family history software

Question Individual display name

  • godzil
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4 years 1 month ago #1 by godzil
Individual display name was created by godzil
Hi,

Is there easy way to display women's name in format "Married name (dd. surname)"?

Deafult view




Expected


Regards
Adrian
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  • bertkoor
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4 years 1 month ago - 4 years 1 month ago #2 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic Individual display name
Yes, but it is a lot of work. Record two names (menu edit -add name) of different types and put the married name first. As raw gedcom:

Code:
1 NAME Aleksandra /Werner/ (dd. Szymanska) 2 TYPE married 2 GIVN Aleksandra 2 SURN Werner 2 NSFX (dd. Szymanska) 1 NAME Aleksandra /Szymanska/ 2 TYPE birth 2 GIVN Aleksandra 2 SURN Szymanska

Or you have to change core code. Not easy... What to do with widows, married twice?

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13
Last edit: 4 years 1 month ago by bertkoor.

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4 years 1 month ago #3 by wuja
Replied by wuja on topic Individual display name

godzil wrote: Is there easy way to display women's name in format "Married name (dd. surname)"?


This is a very bad idea. It seems unprofessional. MyHeritage !?

www.kin.wojciechgracz.pl webtrees 2.0.19

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4 years 1 month ago #4 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic Individual display name

wuja wrote: This is a very bad idea. It seems unprofessional. MyHeritage !?


I would not go that far. Names are a very cultural thing, there is no right or wrong there.

At first I started with recording married names. But never shown them as the primary name, that to me seems wrong because I learned even to me they are confusing and sometimes even misleading. Now I have changed my naming conventions, so my own culture hss changed a bit.

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13

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4 years 1 month ago #5 by wuja
Replied by wuja on topic Individual display name
It seems to me that it's not about cultural matters but about a genealogical program.
Everyone has a family name at birth, regardless of gender. A woman will have her family name all her life, while her husband's surname may or may not be, she may be a widow several times and or divorced several times and have several married names. However, her maiden name will always identify her.
A genealogy program, such as webtrees, is not a document such as a marriage certificate or a document stating the choice of surname when entering into marriage. The genealogical table is designed to show a person's pedigree. That is why in the family tree everyone should be registered under their family names, men under their surnames and women under their own surnames.

www.kin.wojciechgracz.pl webtrees 2.0.19

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4 years 1 month ago - 4 years 1 month ago #6 by pezball
Replied by pezball on topic Individual display name

wuja wrote: However, her maiden name will always identify her



Correct, in addition using her maiden name helps with finding her parents, when those are not known to the genealogist.
Her husband's family name provides zero help, and generally should never need to be recorded with her.
Her married name is usually implied from the name of her husband, or her kids, so that information is already available in most cases.

Her married name(s) may even provide false information for genealogists, and when information is published online, it's absolutely vital that there are no doubts about what name it is.
People mix married and birth names until nobody knows if the information is about the same person or not.

So to keep a standard, never ever provide a married name as primary name for anyone. Same goes for a husband who adopts his wife's family name.
Name at birth is the only vital information needed for all people in the tree.
A different thing happens for tax records and other up-to-date information that is needed for living people at this very moment, but historically we are only interested in links to parents, in order to push deeper into our trees.

In cases where the tree owner needs to know married names (if husband is still unknown for example) it can always be recorded as a research note. In other cases where people actually changes names, it's ok to use the name that the person actually used as primary, while birth names can be alternative names. But married names always need to be clearly marked as such, if they need to appear in the name fields for any reason.
Last edit: 4 years 1 month ago by pezball.

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4 years 1 month ago #7 by godzil
Replied by godzil on topic Individual display name

wuja wrote: It seems unprofessional. MyHeritage !?

pezball wrote: So to keep a standard


Could you guys refer to this professional standards? Any document or source? I'd like to read more about this


I appreciate your concern but i'm asking only for way to display in that format, not edit GEDCOM structure, custom tags.
When you talking with family about any women almost nobody says or remember her family name, when you correspond with any goverment office you must give married name, mostly they give information in mentioned on top format. I agree married name indicate clearly the right person but my request only redundance all names.
In case of doubt with name you can use phrase like de domo, primo voto, secundo voto, tertio voto but i understand they are now anachronism or even faux pas as i see

Regards
Adrian

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4 years 1 month ago - 4 years 1 month ago #8 by pezball
Replied by pezball on topic Individual display name
I understand what you are trying to achieve, that maiden name should show as an addition to the married name,
but one thing to consider, (as bertkoor points out in his reply), is that women can be married several times, with several married names.

You would have to choose the last married name for consistency, so every time a person remarries the name needs to be changed. But then you lose the historical facts.
In old documents she can have another married name, so the current married name is of no help in that context.

To make this completely useful for all situations, there need be a start and end date for each married name, so that it's clear that her name is not the same at all times.
But this possibility does not exist in GEDCOM. It's only implied via the dates for her marriages.
And even then there is no guarantee that she actually takes the name of her husband in every marriage, so it can not even be an automatic function to create a "timeline" of married names based on her marriages.

This is a cultural matter, since it's not a must to marry in a relation, and also not a must to take the husband's family name, in every country in every time. That is why married names are considered an optional extra in most cases, they are not consistent in use, and near impossible to show correctly at any given time in history.

In some countries people can choose to "stack" names past and present, so a Johnson marrying a Smith, can become Johnson-Smith after first marriage, then add another name on next marriage, or remove the maiden name on next marriage, or choose a completely different name on next marriage. Local name laws differ, so the concept of married names can sometimes bring more confusion than clarity.
Last edit: 4 years 1 month ago by pezball.

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4 years 1 month ago - 4 years 1 month ago #9 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic Individual display name
Wanna read up on the subject? Here you go:
www.tamurajones.net/GenealogyNameBasics.xml

Tamura Jones is a bit of an authority on genealogy. Note that I don't always agree with every single bit she writes, but most of it is sound advice, or at least something to consider and think about the pro's and cons.

Or google "genealogy maiden married name" and simular articles come up such as
www.genealogy.com/articles/twigs/rhonda010600.html

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13
Last edit: 4 years 1 month ago by bertkoor.

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4 years 1 month ago - 4 years 1 month ago #10 by GunnarO
Replied by GunnarO on topic Individual display name
i don't think so, i understand what he wants to reach.

As example In german the maiden name will be added to the latest name ... Eva LAST NAME (geb. MAIDEN NAME) only in high official files, but married name will always be the normal one. And on a grave, there is the last name not the maiden name.

You're all right, all marriages, could be named etc. but he only wants to change his page, not the data, he wants if he creates lists see that in one line. i assume. That's all. no sacrilege just an addition.

----
you can do it manually by editing the name-tag in what you like. --> easy but much manual work.
If you want it do to it automatically the way of how these lines are generated must be modified. --> hard and not future proof.
Last edit: 4 years 1 month ago by GunnarO.

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4 years 1 month ago #11 by opeo
Replied by opeo on topic Individual display name
I am new here and just converting a paper based record into digital using webtrees.

I would love to achieve the same with the original poster. And like @GunnarO mentioned it's just for display purposes and not to tamper with the systems.

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4 years 1 month ago #12 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic Individual display name
You would need to modify the code.

The code for names is not trivial.

For example:

* we can have names stored multiple times in multiple scripts (e.g. the same name in latin, hebrew and arabic). You must match the script of the married/birth name

* names can have multiple surnames (e.g. Spain/Portugal).

* names can have no surnames (e.g. Iceland).

You might be able to find simple logic that will work for *your* data.

Assuming you are a PHP programmer, copy the function GedcomRecord::fullName() to Individual::fullName().
Then modify it according to your chosen logic. Use $this->getAllNames() to get the parsed names, and the
"type" entry (empty or "birth") to identify the birth name.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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