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TOPIC: How to handle "Places"?

How to handle "Places"? 2 weeks 2 days ago #1

  • WGroleau
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When I go to Places in the control panel, it is quite a mess. There are different spellings of the same place which when edited, result in two identical entries. There are places that are not actually used (if that's what the circled zero means). And there are "places" that aren't actually places, such as "U. S. Navy". Most of them are strings that I never would have entered into a GEDCOM or entry form, and I am the only editor so far of this tree.

A CSV export doesn't appear to have a primary key on any item, so I don't know how an edit and re-import could fix anything.

Also, when I import the CSV into a LibreOffice spreadsheet, line 348 appears normal, but line 349 column A is empty, and column B seems to contain the entire remainder of the CSV file. I suspect this is a bug in LibreOffice, as I have seen similar behavior with other large files.

Although it is labeled CSV, from the appearance, it seems that the column delimiter is a semicolon?
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How to handle "Places"? 2 weeks 1 day ago #2

  • fisharebest
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"place" = an entry in your GEDCOM file. e.g. "2 PLAC London, England"

"location" = an entry in the webtrees database linking a placename to a latitude/longitude co-ordinate.



> When I go to Places in the control panel, it is quite a mess.

These "locations" come from two sources. (a) CSV files that you import and (b) GEDCOM files that you import.

If you see "U. S. Navy" here, it can only come from (a) or (b). Most likely (b).

> Also, when I import the CSV into a LibreOffice spreadsheet, line 348 appears normal, but line 349 column A is empty, and column B seems to contain the entire remainder of the CSV file.

Did the place name contain a quotation mark? Or have some other distinguishing characteristic?

> A CSV export doesn't appear to have a primary key on any item, so I don't know how an edit and re-import could fix anything.

Locations and places are hierarchical. The name and parent name form a compound primary key.

e.g. "Paris", "France" forms one primary key, and "Paris", "Texas", "United States" forms another.

> Although it is labeled CSV, from the appearance, it seems that the column delimiter is a semicolon?

This is normal. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma-separated_values
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How to handle "Places"? 2 weeks 1 day ago #3

  • Andreas
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Me too, I would like to understand the way "places" is linked via "locations" to their latitude/longitude co-ordinates in webtrees v2.0.x

In my v1.7.16 I thought I had learned it.

Most of the places in my gedcom are mentioned The location of this place is not known.

What is the best procedure to make the places appear on the map ?

I tried to export my data for to examine the structure and to understand, but unfortunately the process always stopped with a time-out.
always searching for members of the MAUPILLÉ and RAUHUT family using a common webtrees V2.x.x installation.
Last Edit: 2 weeks 1 day ago by Andreas.
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How to handle "Places"? 2 weeks 1 day ago #4

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Places (in your genealogy) are just names. e.g. "London, England".
Each tree has its own list of place names.

Locations are a global database of place names and co-ordinates.
e.g. "London, England" , "0E / 51N".

> I would like to understand the way "places" is linked via "locations"

They are linked by name.

If you delete a place, you do not delete the location.

> Most of the places in my gedcom are mentioned The location of this place is not known.

This means that either

a) the place name is not found in the "location database"
b) the place name is found in the location database, but there are no co-ordinates.

> What is the best procedure to make the places appear on the map ?

Add the co-ordinates.
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How to handle "Places"? 2 weeks 1 day ago #5

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I start understanding, that I need to restart looking for co-ordinates a second time. Thought, I did the job in v1.7.16. :-((

I'll begin to delete some places in the "Geographic data" which seemed to be in the false order, but I didn't find these records in my Gedcom.




Most are in the correct order, like these ones





How can I modify the false ones ? Or must I simply delete them ?
always searching for members of the MAUPILLÉ and RAUHUT family using a common webtrees V2.x.x installation.
Last Edit: 2 weeks 23 hours ago by Andreas.
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How to handle "Places"? 2 weeks 5 hours ago #6

  • WGroleau
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Will correcting locations in the CSV and/or adding coordinates, then reimporting replace those already there? Will it have any effect on the places in the GEDCOM? Will the search and replace on PLAC strings change location table entries that point to the previous value?

I suspect not from what I have seen after doing just a couple of edits.
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How to handle "Places"? 2 weeks 4 hours ago #7

  • fisharebest
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> Will correcting locations in the CSV and/or adding coordinates, then reimporting replace those already there?

When you import a CSV file, you get lots of options:

1) delete all existing data first
2) only insert new locations
3) update existing locations

You can choose pretty much any option.

> Will it have any effect on the places in the GEDCOM?

Absolutely not. It is completely independent.

This is a like a gazetteer - a database of information about locations.

> Will the search and replace on PLAC strings change location table entries that point to the previous value?

Search/replace only works on the genealogy data.

It does not affect the locations data.
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How to handle "Places"? 2 weeks 4 hours ago #8

  • WGroleau
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fisharebest wrote:
> Will the search and replace on PLAC strings change location table entries that point to the previous value?

Search/replace only works on the genealogy data.

It does not affect the locations data.

Sounds like I should delete the locations, correct all the places, transfer the places to locations, then add coordinates & flags to the locations.
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How to handle "Places"? 1 week 6 days ago #9

  • xmlf
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>GEDCOM files that you import.
When I add a residence to an individual, will this place be recorded in the wt_placelocation table?
When I search for and replace a place name in data-fix, does it also affect wt_placelocation table?
Which operations will add or delete or replace records in wt_placelocation table?

On this issue(How to handle "Places"?), it is best to put it into webtrees.net/faq/. I think many people will have these puzzles.
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How to handle "Places"? 1 week 6 days ago #10

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Andreas wrote:
I start understanding, that I need to restart looking for co-ordinates a second time. Thought, I did the job in v1.7.16. :-((

I'll begin to delete some places in the "Geographic data" which seemed to be in the false order, but I didn't find these records in my Gedcom.

In the v1.7 there was an option "Show inactive places", now this option disapeared. There are always displayed also locations, which are inactive - they are not used in your gedcom(s).



Some discussion about geographical data is also in this thread: www.webtrees.net/index.php/en/forum/help...t-find-the-placechek

From this thread I am copying this:
fisharebest wrote:
The number is the count of lower-level locations

Red - this location isn't used in your tree(s).
Yellow - missing co-ordinates
Blue - lower-level locations exist.
Grey - no lower-level locations exist.

Ladislav
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How to handle "Places"? 1 week 6 days ago #11

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rola wrote:
Some discussion about geographical data is also in this thread: www.webtrees.net/index.php/en/forum/help...t-find-the-placechek

From this thread I am copying this:
fisharebest wrote:
The number is the count of lower-level locations

Red - this location isn't used in your tree(s).
Yellow - missing co-ordinates
Blue - lower-level locations exist.
Grey - no lower-level locations exist.

Ladislav

Hi Ladislav,

Thank you for the link and explications. I remember that I saw this once but I forgot where.

So I know a little bit how to deal with it
- the red marked locations can be deleted
- the yellow ones need co-ordinates
- blue & grey no action needed, just for information
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How to handle "Places"? 1 week 6 days ago #12

  • bertkoor
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Red - this location isn't used in your tree.

Not used YET! Better not delete it, you might need it in the future.


NB: if this is correct, it's not the best chosen colour. Red should mean to be a serious issue that needs immediate action.
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How to handle "Places"? 1 week 6 days ago #13

  • Andreas
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Ok, I'll keep in mind.

Do you have an idea, why there are some places which have the wrong order in my gedcom ?
See my question above in this thread.

I believe that I didn't enter them in this form. How can I find the event which causes it ?
always searching for members of the MAUPILLÉ and RAUHUT family using a common webtrees V2.x.x installation.
Last Edit: 1 week 6 days ago by Andreas.
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How to handle "Places"? 1 week 6 days ago #14

  • bertkoor
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Well, in the menu under Lists you have a Place Hierarchy list, eg
dev.webtrees.net/demo-dev/module/places_list/List/demo

Use that to drill down what place comes from which event.

At the highest level you should only see countries, no cities.

Sometimes you'll have dates or occupations due to data entry errors.
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Last Edit: 1 week 6 days ago by bertkoor.
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How to handle "Places"? 1 week 6 days ago #15

  • Andreas
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bertkoor wrote:
Well, in the menu under Lists you have a Place Hierarchy list, eg
dev.webtrees.net/demo-dev/module/places_list/List/demo
Use that to drill down what place comes from which event.


This is not really a good example. That's not a hierarchie of places. Any place has co-ordinates.
So the pedigree map is without any function.

Yes, of course I can find the events to all places in this and even my list at wt.rauhut.eu/module/places_list/List/GAC.ged

My question concerns the Geographic data in the Control Panel. The demo doesn't show this.
always searching for members of the MAUPILLÉ and RAUHUT family using a common webtrees V2.x.x installation.
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How to handle "Places"? 1 week 6 days ago #16

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Andreas wrote:
Ok, I'll keep in mind.

Do you have an idea, why there are some places which have the wrong order in my gedcom ?
See my question above in this thread.

I believe that I didn't enter them in this form. How can I find the event which causes it ?

I dont know. Wasnt there many years ago a possibility to choose the order of levels? Now the place has a structure "L4, L3, L2, L1, L0" where L0 is top level. Perhaps this is relict of using structure "L0, L1, L2, L3, L4"?

Ladislav
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How to handle "Places"? 1 week 6 days ago #17

  • bertkoor
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I'm sorry, but you clearly asked about places with illogical name order, which come from the GEDCOM events. The place hierarchy list is where that is shown. Clear that up first, then concentrate on the coordinates.
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How to handle "Places"? 1 week 5 days ago #18

  • WGroleau
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fisharebest wrote:
When you import a CSV file, you get lots of options:

1) delete all existing data first
2) only insert new locations
3) update existing locations

I deleted a lot of garbage from the CSV, corrected several, and imported, selecting delete all.

But afterward, some of the ones I deleted are still there, and the blurb above the table says "locations updated: 1,213, locations added: 1,208"

There are 1216 lines in the file.
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How to handle "Places"? 1 week 5 days ago #19

  • WGroleau
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WGroleau wrote:
fisharebest wrote:
When you import a CSV file, you get lots of options:

1) delete all existing data first
2) only insert new locations
3) update existing locations

I deleted a lot of garbage from the CSV, corrected several, and imported, selecting delete all.

But afterward, some of the ones I deleted are still there, and the blurb above the table says "locations updated: 1,213, locations added: 1,208"

There are 1216 lines in the file.

Well, rather confused. Repeated the operation, and nothing seems to be deleted again, but the blurb above did not appear. Pretty sure I made the same selections each time. Then I deleted all the lines in the file except the three that actually had coordinates and did it again. This time the deletion worked.
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How to handle "Places"? 1 week 5 days ago #20

  • rola
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Just my actualy story:

I had in my geographic data one level twice (with a typo in it "Ústecký kraj" vs "Ústecký Kraj").

I deleted the wrong writing - first i had to go into deeper level and delete all locations there). Then I did an "Import all places from a family tree" from my tree - the wrong writing was back.

I downloaded the gedcom - there were no data with wrong writing in it. So i decided to make an export and import of the whole tree - and it helped and now is it OK.

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