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coordinates are not imported 3 weeks 1 day ago #1

  • otmar.mayr
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I just noticed that when importing a Gedcom the coordinates are not imported. Is that already known?
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coordinates are not imported 3 weeks 1 day ago #2

  • fisharebest
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Do you mean _PLAC and _PLAC_DEFN records?

Support for these was added in 2.0.8.

But this release needed to be withdrawn, as it had a problem with the auto-upgrade.

Wait for 2.0.9, which will be very soon.
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coordinates are not imported 3 weeks 1 day ago #3

  • otmar.mayr
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_PLAC_DEFN does not exist in my Gedcom. I only have these entries:

2 PLAC Hohenems, Grafschaft Hohenems, Heiliges Römisches Reich
3 MAP
4 LATI 47.365800
4 LONG 9.689000
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coordinates are not imported 3 weeks 1 day ago #4

  • fisharebest
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This is the location of an *event* - not the location of a place.

For example, an individual can be born/married/buried in the same place (e.g. town or city), but each event will have different co-ordinates (e.g. hospital, church, cemetery).
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coordinates are not imported 3 weeks 1 day ago #5

  • otmar.mayr
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> For example, a person can be born / married / buried in the same place (e.g. town or municipality), but each event has different coordinates (e.g. hospital, church, cemetery). <

I have separate coordinates for each place (place of birth / church (place of marriage, baptism) / place of death / cemetery / place of residence, ...).

If I understand it correctly, I do not need _PLAC_DEFN, since it only saves the location (place of birth / church (place of marriage, baptism) / place of death / cemetery / place of residence, ...) the event took place - without using own coordinates.
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coordinates are not imported 3 weeks 22 hours ago #6

I just added
2 PLAC Hohenems, Grafschaft Hohenems, Heiliges Römisches Reich
3 MAP
4 LATI 47.365800
4 LONG 9.689000
to a GEDCOM test file, imported it and the coordinates are imported correctly. Why do you think that the import does not work?
webtrees 2.0.9 (all available custom modules installed) @ ahnen.hartenthaler.eu/
and webtrees 1.7.17 (many custom modules) @ ahnen1.hartenthaler.eu/

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coordinates are not imported 3 weeks 17 hours ago #7

  • otmar.mayr
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Thank you for your information.

After import of a Gedcom I had in the Place hierarchy many errors and wrong coordinates. I don't know why.

Because of this I was the meaning that the import of the coordinates doesn't work anymore. After there I've deleted the place data I imported old data from a CSV-File, so that I had some Coordinates in the family tree.

In the meantime I had added some new places on my lokal genealogy software. I created a new Gedcom and imported that on my WT2 installation. I don't know why, but now it had no errors and I can see the new places with the coordinates.
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coordinates are not imported 1 week 5 days ago #8

  • otmar.mayr
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After today's import from a Gedcom the coordinates are missing again.

I use WT 2.0.9

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coordinates are not imported 1 week 5 days ago #9

  • fisharebest
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There are two types of location.

1) the location of EVENTS. These are stored in GEDCOM data.
2) the location of PLACES. These are NOT stored in GEDCOM data. (They are stored in the "geographic data" in webtrees).

You can have different coordinates for different events in the SAME place.

e.g. birth at hospital, marriage at church, burial at cemetery.
Three different coordinates, all for the same place.

> After today's import from a Gedcom the coordinates are missing again.

Then everything is working correctly.

Coordinates from the GEDCOM data (e.g. the location of events) do not overwrite the location of places.
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coordinates are not imported 1 week 5 days ago #10

  • otmar.mayr
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<Coordinates from the GEDCOM data (e.g. the location of events) do not overwrite the location of places.>

For me it is very important that the coordinates are imported from Gedcom into Webtrees. That worked for many years with Webtrees and I don't want to miss it in the future.

I also don't understand why the Webtrees locations and the locations for events should be treated separately.
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coordinates are not imported 1 week 4 days ago #11

  • norwegian_sardines
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Are you round tripping? Where were these coordinates created? Why not use the facility built into webtrees to create coordinates that don’t rely on import and are therefore always consistent and don’t have the potential of changing?
Ken

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coordinates are not imported 1 week 4 days ago #12

  • otmar.mayr
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I can't stumble around because I'm walking around without blinkers. Sorry, that had to be said in response to your rude statement.
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coordinates are not imported 1 week 4 days ago #13

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Are you saying my questions were rude? If so I don’t understand!

I’m trying to help you understand why WT can’t use the EVENT based coordinates, rather than the PLACE coordinates maintained within webtrees.
Ken

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coordinates are not imported 1 week 4 days ago #14

@otmar.mayr:
Perhaps something was lost in translation. Are you aware that the term "round tripper" simply means that you repeatedly transfer your GEDCOM data set from one genealogy program to another, and then try to import it back into the original one? It is a bad idea because some data will be lost or garbled when the file returns to the original program -- similar to the problems encountered by automatically translating text from one language to another, and then back to the first one.

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coordinates are not imported 1 week 4 days ago #15

  • otmar.mayr
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I would like to come to the essential point: Webtrees 2.x

The Webtrees development team is very committed and deserves my respect. I like Webtrees 2.x because it gives me good search results. Unfortunately, not everything from programmers come up with is of use to everyone. Sometimes it even does the opposite.

With all versions before WT 2.0.9 I was able to import the locations created with Brothers Keeper via a Gedcom. This function has simply been abolished without consideration. One could have kept an option in Webtrees that allows the location data to be imported from a Gedcom.

I must use the locations in Brothers Keeper. My genealogy research includes historical place names. The place names that are valid today would give a wrong picture.

For example, I lead Florence as a city in the Holy Roman Empire, as a city in the Austrian Empire, as a city in the Kingdom of Italy and as a city of the Republic of Italy.

If a person was born in Florence in 1835, then that person was not born in the Republic of Italy, but in the Empire of Austria.

Places that belonged to the German Empire came to France due to a war. The person was therefore born in the German Empire and not in France.

If someone was born in a place in the Banat, then that place belonged to the Holy Roman Empire. It would be wrong to state Romania as the country of birth.

There are tons of other examples I could cite, but that's beyond the scope of this article.

I would expect developers to incorporate a genealogist's experience into webtrees.
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coordinates are not imported 1 week 4 days ago #16

  • norwegian_sardines
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Omar,

I too use historical names and locations for places and webtrees will handle this without issue. The problem with using GEDCOM event coordinates is that events with the same GEDCOM place name, for example: “ Kristiania, Norway” could have different coordinates from event to event. This is a limitation of the design of GEDCOM where each event has different coordinates associated with it, even if the PLACe tag has the same name. Importing the GEDCOM coordinates would not be consistent with each imported event.

People who round trip, reimport over and over, could overlay previous coordinates with different coordinates with each import. This is not a good strategy.

However, if you use the facility built into webtrees once the coordinate is entered they remain, and every PLACe tag with the same value will reuse those already entered coordinates again and again. When Kristiania became Oslo, I would have two entries in webtrees one for each location name, they can have the same or different coordinates. This way as I add new people to my database those born in Oslo would have coordinates associated with Oslo and those born in Kristiania would have Kristiania coordinates.

If you create a new database, simple export the PLACe coordinates out of the old webtrees database and import them again in the new webtrees database.

I have Banat family as well, and this area has multiple names for the same location depending on year, religion, country of rule. All of this can be handled in webtrees, if you want this to be the case. Some people like to use modern names others like to use historic names. This can all be handled and configured within webtrees.
Ken

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coordinates are not imported 1 week 4 days ago #17

  • otmar.mayr
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The overlaying of several coordinates is not possible with my system, because I am the only one who manages the data import the Gedcom into Webtrees.Your recommendation to use the coordinates from an old Webtrees installation doesn't work either.I installed Webtrees 1.7.17 and imported a Gedcom. All locations and coordinates are available. I exported the data to a places.csv and then imported it WT 2.0.9 installation. Unfortunately, with no good result. There are many data missing.




As it looks now, I would have to enter / edit thousands of location data in webtrees. I would also have to make location-corrections in Brothers Keeper and Webtrees.Maybe I should go back to Webtrees 1.7.17.
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coordinates are not imported 1 week 3 days ago #18

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In webtrees there are (and were in v1.7.x as well) two separate methods for providing location data:

1. Supply LATI - LONG data in the GEDCOM event. This way you can pinpoint the exact location the event took place. But it needs to be done for each and every event. This way the geo location data is embedded in the GEDCOM file, and should survive exports / imports.

2. Supply LATI - LONG data in the Geographic Data module, or import it from a CSV file. This way the PLACe name of an event is used to look up its location on the map. The geo locations are not stored in the GEDCOM file. Also, they could be part of the tree, since I expect trees are completely isolated from each other. That means if you delete a tree and import it again into a new tree, the geo data is gone. However when importing a GEDCOM file into an existing tree, the geo data should remain there. If a v1.7.x system containing this data is upgraded, then all geo locations should remain there.

These two methods are not mutual exclusive, both can be used at the same time. Me thinks geo location of method 1 has priority over those of method 2. But if a place has a location provided by method 1, then the list in method 2 has no knowledge about it.

There was a rather long thread about this subject a while ago, which might explain some oddities when using the geo data modules:
www.webtrees.net/index.php/en/forum/help...ic-data-module#79229

Questions for you:

1. How are geo locations exactly handled in Brothers Keepers?
2. How did you upgrade? On top of an existing system, thus preserving all data , or starting from scratch?
3. How do you know for sure for instance you had the location of Honduras in your old system?
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coordinates are not imported 1 week 3 days ago #19

  • otmar.mayr
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For explanation:

I only import Gedcoms that I made with Brothers Keeper. This contains all data and corrections (including coordinates). All old data in Webtrees is deleted with the import. This worked fine up to version 2.0.9.

I get the location data/coordinates from Wikipedia and Google Maps. In Brothers Keeper, I not only add the coordinates, but also important information and weblinks for each location. If I've made a mistake about where a place belongs, then I can change that easy in BK.

I installed WT 1.7.17 new and imported a Gedcom. From WT 1.7.17 I exported the coordinates to places.csv. Then I take over thge data in places.csv in the WT 2.0.9 installation. As you can see, that didn't work.

I know that the coordinates are missing for Honduras and the department Colón, but the place Trujillo is still shown on the map.

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coordinates are not imported 1 week 3 days ago #20

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Sorry, but for me it is still not clear how geo locations are stored in Brothers Keepers. Does it resemble method 1 (tags in gedcom events) or not?

I mean, if it is not stored in gedcom, and/or you created the webtrees v2 site from scratch, you cannot blame anyone for it not being imported.
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