Web based family history software

Idea Google Sign-In to webtrees

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3 years 4 months ago #1 by jangaz@gmail.com
Google Sign-In to webtrees was created by jangaz@gmail.com
Hello, tried to search the forum for a while, did not really find such topic

Are there any plans to implement a Google/Facebook/Microsoft Sign-In to webtrees?
This way it could be easier for the users to login and the admin automatically get some user information. This would be great e.g. for keeping actual picture.

developers.google.com/identity/sign-in/web

Integrating Google Sign-In into your web app

Have to say, I do not understand much to programming, I am just a user and great fan of yours. webtrees is great. Thanks

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3 years 4 months ago - 3 years 4 months ago #2 by pezball
Replied by pezball on topic Google Sign-In to webtrees
The user information from other web services, often tend to be "invented" by people to avoid giving away their real identity.

As tree administrator I would not see any big benefits from getting access to the current profile data, if that data claims that a person's name is Happy Chicken, and has a profile picture with a cartoon bird.

The current login system is hardly overly complicated. The same steps you need to get an account now, would still be needed, because the administrator needs to be sure that the person is allowed to get access to a part of the tree.
We can not let people in just cos they have a Google account, so the procedure for getting access would be pretty much the same.

Other web services can use third party login and only rely on the profile data, because each user creates his/her own separate pieces of information, and there is no need for users to identify themselves as belonging to a certain part of a tree of more or less secret data.
Last edit: 3 years 4 months ago by pezball.

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3 years 4 months ago #3 by xmlf
Replied by xmlf on topic Google Sign-In to webtrees
The easiest way is to do as I have already done.
Added registration fields, registered users need to fill in the names of father, mother, uncle and grandfather, and fill in the phone number.
Through this information, the administrator can well verify the real identity of the user.

I very much hope that webtrees can provide oauth2.0, and webtrees users can log in to wordpress

Wang Family Website of Suining County, China
www.snwsjz.com
A family tree website that is customized, more humanized and convenient for users.

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3 years 4 months ago #4 by jangaz@gmail.com
Replied by jangaz@gmail.com on topic Google Sign-In to webtrees
How do you add new registration fields (names of father, mother,...phone number)? - I kike this idea

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3 years 4 months ago #5 by xmlf
Replied by xmlf on topic Google Sign-In to webtrees
You can modify the registration page, add fields, and store them in the comment field of the database.
I sincerely hope that it can be provided in the official version instead of modifying the code.

Wang Family Website of Suining County, China
www.snwsjz.com
A family tree website that is customized, more humanized and convenient for users.

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3 years 4 months ago - 3 years 4 months ago #6 by pezball
Replied by pezball on topic Google Sign-In to webtrees
I am not sure if knowing someone's parents, uncle, and grandfather, will help the tree manager to determine if a person belongs in a tree, when that person's only existing link is a great great great grandfather, or other long distance family member.

The most common scenario, when someone contacts me about my tree, is that they have found a very distant relative in the tree, in a branch where I have not yet started to find the later generations. In that case knowing the grandparents can be several generations too late, for me to connect the dots and add this person to my tree, so that they can get access.

No matter how many fields you add for them to fill in, there will always be one field missing, because of the infinite ways a person can be related to an existing tree. So the current commentary field is still the most flexible way for a person to give their family story.

My tree starts back in the 1500's for some branches, and if someone points out that a person born in for example 1645 is their ancestor, while giving me their grandparents, it will be missing a whole bunch of generations in between. So I would say that the more specific you make the registration process, the less useful it gets. Simpler is better in this case of too many unknown variables.

Knowing someone's uncle, who I certainly will not know anything about, will not give me any more evidence than anything else, because here it's far from straightforward to actually verify living people, due to European internet integrity laws. In many cases, personal visits to national document archives are needed, to really verify the information, and that is a slow process in normal circumstances, even slower now when travelling is the last thing that people should do.
Last edit: 3 years 4 months ago by pezball.

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3 years 4 months ago #7 by Sir Peter
Replied by Sir Peter on topic Google Sign-In to webtrees
For the benefit of this discussion I suggest to differentiate between the initial one-time registration of a new user for whom you presumably want to ensure his/her identity and the logon of a user who already registered with your webtrees installation.

Frankly speaking I cannot imagine that you would want someone to automatically register as a new user and get access to potentially very personal information that might be protected by law just because that user provides a Google or a Facebook account.

Peter

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3 years 4 months ago #8 by pezball
Replied by pezball on topic Google Sign-In to webtrees

Sir Peter wrote: I cannot imagine that you would want someone to automatically register as a new user and get access to potentially very personal information that might be protected by law just because that user provides a Google or a Facebook account.


Exactly, and that is why this option does not exist. A user who only exists in webtrees, is the safest and easiest way to make sure that integrity rules can be followed, even if some people may argue that it's easier to login with the same user all over the internet. Yes, much easier, but hardly safe. Not to mention that the profile information that comes from such accounts, is rarely if ever useful, since people want to protect their true identity. With webtrees the key is that the admin knows the true identity.

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3 years 4 months ago #9 by xmlf
Replied by xmlf on topic Google Sign-In to webtrees
This is the biggest difference between us and you. I have complete genealogy data, so I can quickly verify the identity of others when they sign up. In China, basically every family has its own complete set of genealogy. And most of them live together.

Wang Family Website of Suining County, China
www.snwsjz.com
A family tree website that is customized, more humanized and convenient for users.

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3 years 4 months ago #10 by pezball
Replied by pezball on topic Google Sign-In to webtrees

xmlf wrote: I have complete genealogy data, so I can quickly verify the identity of others when they sign up.


Yes, so this is a cultural difference, but webtrees needs to be universal, and not assume that trees are complete. For most people the reason to have the tree published, is so that they can find unknown family members, and to get help with completing their tree, not to simply add already known users.

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3 years 4 months ago - 3 years 4 months ago #11 by pezball
Replied by pezball on topic Google Sign-In to webtrees
An additonal problem with Google or Facebook accounts, is that even if you somehow prevent them from gettting access before they are verified, the fact that Google or Facebook can be used, may trigger people to give it a try just cos it can be done without registering a new account.

So admin can end up with a lot more work to determine who is a serious user, and who is simply clicking on a link because it says Google.
The normal webtrees process, is less likely to draw attention. The only thing missing with current webtrees login process is perhaps a visible "I am not a robot" verification. webtrees calculates if you are too fast with filling in information, but a verification banner would do the same in a more obvious way, for users who actually are quick on the keyboard.
Last edit: 3 years 4 months ago by pezball.

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3 years 4 months ago #12 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic Google Sign-In to webtrees
> The only thing missing with current webtrees login process is perhaps a "I am not a robot" verification.

The registration page does have this! Here is the code:
github.com/fisharebest/webtrees/blob/mas...s/CaptchaService.php

Of course, since webtrees is an open-source project, someone could easily write a robot to bypass this code.
But it will catch "general-purpose" robots which search for registration pages.

> Frankly speaking I cannot imagine that you would want someone to automatically register as a new user and get access to potentially very personal information

It wouldn't. The current registration system requires:

1 Choose a password
2 Choose a username
3 Additional information (e.g. how are you related)
4 Email verification
5 Admin approval, set access levels, etc.

A third-party authentication system could only replace 1 and 4.

Maybe we could generate an automatic/random username for 2.
We would still require 3.

So, the sign-up would require additional steps when you use google/facebook.

Finally, we would still require 5.

> For the benefit of this discussion I suggest to differentiate between the initial one-time registration of a new user for whom you presumably want to ensure his/her identity and the logon of a user who already registered

Logon for existing users is simpler.

But there are many complications. For example, someone may use a different email address in their google account and their webtrees account. So you must allow them to link and unlink these other accounts.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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3 years 4 months ago #13 by pezball
Replied by pezball on topic Google Sign-In to webtrees

fisharebest wrote: Logon for existing users is simpler.

But there are many complications.



Yes, so there is perhaps not so much to gain with adding more login options, especially considering that many people will only have to manually login once, while their browsers and cookies will keep their credentials and sessions.

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