Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen

Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 1 month 1 week ago #1

ChrisAndersen
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Just got a gedcom file from a cousin...
First import did not work. Then I tried some agents as FTM old and new, which also didn't accept the gedcom from PC-Ahnen and finally I tried Legacy and the import into webtrees worked but had essential mistakes like recognizing the gedcom tags as sources and writing them on the front end.
What can I do?

Anyone, who ever have made a clean import from PC-Ahnen to webtrees?

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Last edit: by ChrisAndersen.

Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 1 month 1 week ago #2

bertkoor
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> import did not work.

That is too vague. What exactly went wrong? Until now I experienced webtrees accepts nearly everything you throw at it that even remotely resembles a GEDCOM file, so "did not work" is unexpected. Especially since the developer of PC-Ahnen claims he exports compliant GEDCOM files.

It's probably a bit too much to ask you to share the GEDCOM file you received. But could you at least show us the first dozen lines containing the header? I'm thinking it could be due to the text file encoding (see www.pcahnen.de/html/DatenaustauschGEDCOM.html )

I got somewhat intrigued and found out PC-Ahnen is a 16-bit only Windows application. No further comment.
It would take me some considerable effort to install and run it myself to see how non-conformant the GEDCOM file is it produces.
Then it probably depends on what GEDCOM "features" exactly were used. Since you mention sources, the stored data is presumably a bit more complex than just relations, names and dates.

> What can I do?

I expect there are structural shortcomings in the GEDCOM file. These could probably be repaired with a good text editor that has search / replace facilities with regular expressions. Determining what was actually supposed to be written into the file could require it to be loaded back into PC-Ahnen itself.

How many persons are in the file? Can you install & run PC-Ahnen yourself? Then you can import the file there and just copy-paste whatever you want. That's the approach I'd take if the GEDCOM contains less than say 100 individuals. I estimate it takes about a day of work to just copy-paste all basic data (names, dates, places, relations) for less than 100 persons.

But since you got it from a cousin, the chances are big there is a huge overlap with data you already have. I'm personally not a fan of merging trees and merging individuals & families from different authors. The place hierarchy could be different, etc. I'd prefer to review all the data before entering it into my own system. Manually.

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Last edit: by bertkoor.

Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 1 month 5 days ago #3

ChrisAndersen
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Posts: 130

Hej Bert,
thx for your detailed answer.

The first lines of the gedcom file look like this:

0 HEAD
1 SOUR PCAHNEN
2 NAME PCAHNEN
2 VERS 2021
1 DATE 30 DEC 2020
1 GEDC
2 VERS 5.5.1
2 FORM LINEAGE-LINKED
1 CHAR UTF-8
1 PLAC
2 FORM place,district,state,country,postalcode
1 NOTE Important note on location data:
2 CONT In order to avoid redundant data, the additional information for each location is only output when it is first mentioned.
1 _SCHEMA
2 INDI
3 NAME
4 _RUFNAME
5 _DEFN German 'Rufname' underlined given name
3 CHR
4 _GODP
5 _DEFN Godparent
2 FAM
3 MARR
4 _WITN
5 _DEFN Witness
2 PLAC
3 _GOV
4 _DEFN Identifier in GOV (genealogical gazeteer)
3 _MAIDENHEAD
4 _DEFN Maidenhead Locator
2 EVEN
3 _URKU
4 _DEFN Evidence of event is available
1 SUBM @SUBM@
1 FILE C:\PCAHNEN\GED_EXPO\B.GED
0 @SUBM@ SUBM
1 NAME Hans
1 ADDR Bstraße
2 CONT Rfeld
0 @I1@ INDI
1 NAME Stephan /Bodenburg/
1 SEX M
1 BIRT
2 DATE ABT 1585
2 SOUR @S1@
1 DEAT
2 DATE 13 MAR 1665
2 PLAC Seesen,,NS,D__,38723
3 _GOV SEESENJO51CV
3 _MAIDENHEAD JO51CV
2 SOUR @S2@
1 BURI
2 DATE 14 MAR 1665
2 PLAC Seesen
2 SOUR @S3@
1 RELI lu
1 OCCU Bürgermeister von Seesen
1 RESI
2 PLAC Seesen
1 FAMS @F1@
0 @I2@ INDI
1 NAME Hanß Moritz /Bodenburg/
1 SEX M
1 RELI lu
1 FAMC @F1@
0 @I3@ INDI

When I analyse the file I get this result:
1. Use a common convention for cross references.
2. The following valid user definded tags were detected _SCHEMA, _MAIDENHEAD, _RUFNAME, _GODP, _WITN, _URKU.

Even if I google the first result I don't understand it. The tags I'd like to forward but don't know to which GEDCOM tags.

I already deleted some mistakes in the file and can import it now but still get a result like the attachment. Tags at the wrong place and Source tags on the frontpage.

At the moment I'm working with a file containing 1583 individuals, the whole file is about 48439.

I'm totally with you concerning the merging process and I'm a bit scared about that at the horizon, because I'm setting more on quality than quantity... and yes there is some! overlap. Actually it looks like a copy of my part from 10 years ago and I really would conterminate my data with a quick & dirty import.

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Last edit: by ChrisAndersen.

Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 1 month 5 days ago #4

norwegian_sardines
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I already deleted some mistakes in the file and can import it now but still get a result like the attachment. Tags at the wrong place and Source tags on the frontpage

What specifically in the attached image and the provided GEDCOM do not seam correct to you?

Does the Source_Record have a title? If not then, I suspect that you are seeing the XREF instead!

If you are looking at the Marriage fact, that is ok as well!

Ken

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Last edit: by norwegian_sardines.

Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 1 month 4 days ago #5

ChrisAndersen
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Greetings from Århus, Denmark
Posts: 130

Thanks for the question...
Specifically:
Marriage - Type: RELI (Gedcom tag on frontend)
Marriage - Source: S2200 (Source ID on frontend)
Death - Source: S2 (Source ID on frontend)
Burial - Source: S3 (Source ID on frontend)

You see some content from the backend is printed on the frontend. Instead you should see the text content of sources and tags.

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Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 1 month 4 days ago #6

bertkoor
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Posts: 2203

As said, your source records seem to have no title. These are not required by the GEDCOM standards, but I'm curious what's there in your source for identification.
Could you share some lines of your GEDCOM file that come right after "0 @S2@ SOUR" ??

This is one of my often used sources in webtrees:

0 @S1@ SOUR
1 TITL wikipedia

The GEDCOM standards have no official values defined for the TYPE of events.
This is what a religious marriage looks like in webtrees :

1 MARR
2 TYPE Religious

So you can search & replace "2 TYPE RELI" with "2 TYPE Religious". Perhaps other sub-types are not understood (that is: translated into proper words) by webtrees as well.

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Last edit: by bertkoor.

Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 1 month 4 days ago #7

fisharebest Offline Administrator Posts: 14084	If a source record does not have a name (TITL or ABBR), then webtrees uses the XREF (e.g. "S1") as the title. It has to call it something! Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 1 month 3 days ago #8

ChrisAndersen
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Greetings from Århus, Denmark
Posts: 130

Thanks for your help :-)

The lines after S2:

2 SOUR @S2@
1 BURI
2 DATE 14 MAR 1665
2 PLAC Seesen
2 SOUR @S3@
1 RELI lu
1 OCCU Bürgermeister von Seesen
1 RESI
2 PLAC Seesen
1 FAMS @F1@
0 @I2@ INDI
1 NAME Hanß Moritz /Bodenburg/
1 SEX M
1 RELI lu
1 FAMC @F1@
0 @I3@ INDI
1 NAME Anna Maria /Bodenburg/
1 SEX F
1 BIRT
2 DATE ABT 1618
2 SOUR @S4@
1 NAME Scherenberg
2 TYPE married
1 DEAT
2 DATE 29 MAR 1686
2 PLAC Seesen
2 SOUR @S5@
1 BURI
2 DATE 04 APR 1686
2 PLAC Seesen
2 SOUR @S6@
1 RELI lu
1 RESI
2 PLAC Seesen
1 FAMS @F2@
1 FAMC @F1@
0 @I4@ INDI
1 NAME Hans Heinrich /Scherenberg/
2 _RUFNAME Heinrich
1 SEX M
1 BIRT
2 DATE ABT 1616

Don't know what to do. To enter TITL for every single one would be too much, because the title of the source come when I click on the S2-Link. Just the order is wrong.

I get the feeling the Gedcom file was corrupted before it was exported from PC-Ahnen... meaning I don't have a chance to import this big file automatically.
If my cousin wants me to import this file, he should deliver a clean one.

btw. I would be happy to be proven wrong and if there still be a way for me to import the file ;-)

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Last edit: by ChrisAndersen.

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Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 1 month 3 days ago #9

norwegian_sardines
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This is not the SOURse record, this is the Source_Citation.

To find the the Record in the GEDCOM, you would need to do a find on: “0 @S2@ SOUR”

Maybe try the Automatic Expand Sources on the Individual option found in the “Preferences” Page of your tree in the control panel, if you are not interested in adding TITL tags to all of you SOUR records.

While the TITL is not “Required” it is highly recommended.

Ken

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Last edit: by norwegian_sardines.

Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 4 weeks 2 days ago #10

ChrisAndersen
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Greetings from Århus, Denmark
Posts: 130

I think it is a kind of structural accident and I tried Legacy and Grumps for export the GEDCOM file. I removed the PC-AHNEN Header and now it looks like this:

0 HEAD
1 SOUR webtrees
2 NAME webtrees
2 VERS 1.7.17
1 DEST DISKETTE
1 DATE 26 JAN 2021
2 TIME 15:10:07
1 GEDC
2 VERS 5.5.1
2 FORM Lineage-Linked
1 CHAR UTF-8
1 FILE uid
1 SUBM @S0@
0 @I1@ INDI
1 NAME Stephan /Bodenburg/
2 GIVN Stephan
2 SURN Bodenburg
1 SEX M
1 BIRT
2 DATE ABT 1585
2 SOUR @S2@
1 DEAT
2 DATE 13 MAR 1665
2 PLAC Seesen, , NS, D__, 38723
2 SOUR @S254@
1 BURI
2 DATE 14 MAR 1665
2 PLAC Seesen
2 SOUR @S731@
1 RESI
2 PLAC Seesen
1 RELI lu
1 OCCU Bürgermeister von Seesen
1 NOTE 0A7C6087C7624578BC9E846B07ABE63A6EF7
1 CHAN
2 DATE 26 JAN 2021
3 TIME 10:46
1 FAMS @F1@
0 @I10@ INDI
1 NAME Hans Heinrich /Scherenberg/
2 GIVN Hans Heinrich
2 SURN Scherenberg
1 SEX M
1 BIRT
2 DATE 1650
2 SOUR @S115@
1 DEAT
2 DATE 4 MAY 1726
2 PLAC Seesen
2 SOUR @S164@
1 RESI
2 PLAC Seesen
1 RELI ev
1 OCCU Kauf- und Handelsherr, Bürgermeister
1 NOTE 707CC12367F8400392082A48E2062B47D813
1 CHAN
2 DATE 26 JAN 2021
3 TIME 10:46
1 FAMS @F3@
1 FAMS @F4@
1 FAMC @F2@

On the frontend it looks like this:

Name:
Stephan Bodenburg

Geburt:
um 1585
Quelle: BIRT

Heirat:
Elisabeth Bodenburg
Typ: RELI
Quelle: MARR RELI

Tod:
13.03.1665
Seesen
Quelle: DEAT, Seesen

The frontend should look like this:

Name:
Stephan Bodenburg

Geburt:
um 1585
Quelle: Ahnentafel Bodenburg

Heirat:
Elisabeth Bodenburg
Typ: evangelisch
Quelle: Kirchenbuch Seesen

Tod:
13.03.1665
Seesen
Quelle: Ahnenlistenumlauf Langenstraßen

GEDCOM tags like BIRT ect. on the frontend.
Do you see any error in the header... and... how do I repair this file?

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Last edit: by ChrisAndersen.

Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 4 weeks 2 days ago #11

norwegian_sardines Offline Elite Member Posts: 1943	Since you still have not supplied the actual SOUR record I can only guess why your Quelle/Source says what it does! 1 BIRT 2 DATE ABT 1585 2 SOUR @S2@ Find the S2 source_record and provide the GEDCOM tags. Your DEAT.PLAC tag looks odd: 2 PLAC Seesen, , NS, D__, 38723 I don’t see any true errors in the snippet of GEDCOM you provided. Ken
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Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 4 weeks 2 days ago #12

Sir Peter
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The odd looking place is based upon the PLAC.FORM definition included in the 3rd post - with NS for Niedersachsen and D__ for Deutschland and the disctrict missing. I'd remove the postal codes completely and replace NS and D__ with their full names. With the postal code at the end you'll probably run into further issues with the webtrees location hierarchy.

1 PLAC
2 FORM place,district,state,country,postalcode

Peter

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Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 4 weeks 2 days ago #13

norwegian_sardines Offline Elite Member Posts: 1943	Thanks for the explanation. The PLAC.FORM tag as far as I know has no value in webtrees! The postal code will work in webtrees if you enter the value in the mapping database hierarchy. I would also add the district value or remove the comma from the PLAC to work properly. Ken
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Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 4 weeks 2 days ago #14

ChrisAndersen
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Greetings from Århus, Denmark
Posts: 130

Here is the part with S2 and replaced locations:

0 @I1@ INDI
1 NAME Stephan /Bodenburg/
2 GIVN Stephan
2 SURN Bodenburg
1 SEX M
1 BIRT
2 DATE Abt 1585
2 SOUR @S2@
1 DEAT
2 DATE 13 Mar 1665
2 PLAC Seesen, Goslar, Niedersachsen, Germany
2 SOUR @S254@
1 BURI
2 DATE 14 Mar 1665
2 PLAC Seesen, Goslar, Niedersachsen, Germany
2 SOUR @S731@
1 RESI
2 PLAC Seesen, Goslar, Niedersachsen, Germany
1 RELI lu
1 OCCU Bürgermeister von Seesen
1 NOTE 0A7C6087C7624578BC9E846B07ABE63A6EF7
1 CHAN
2 DATE 26 Jan 2021
3 TIME 10:46
1 FAMS @F1@

and

0 @S2@ SOUR
1 ABBR BIRT
1 TITL BIRT
1 REFN 1
1 TEXT Lars Severin, Potsdam
1 NOTE BIRT,

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Last edit: by ChrisAndersen.

Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 4 weeks 2 days ago #15

Sir Peter Offline Junior Member Posts: 110	This not what we are looking for. You are showing a section including 2 SOUR @S2@ We'd like to see the section beginning with 0 @S2@ SOUR until the next line beginning with a 0. See the difference? Peter
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Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 4 weeks 2 days ago #16

norwegian_sardines
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Posts: 1943

Chris,

As I indicated above this is not the Source Record this is the SOUR tag within the fact (BIRT, DEAT, etc).

Please search for the source record as indicated above. Since this is an import from another software program and we are not familiar with the makeup of the imported GEDCOM, that file may have multiple issues that the import code from webtrees does not understand. My questions would be: 1) Does the imported GEDCOM not use "Source Records" at all and webtrees must manufacture them. 2) Does the imported GEDCOM use some other tag rather than TITL or ABBR as it's description of the source, therefore webtrees does not know what to use? 3) What does the "Source Record" in your import file look like?

Thanks for being patient with your issues with your previous program. We have seen with so many genealogy programs that they don't know or understand the GEDCOM Standard and therefore they make up a lot of new tags or they are basing their interpretation of what is good GEDCOM from very old documentation. I know when I've talked to support staff from some companies that they don't even seam to care that they are producing bad GEDCOM, many are content to prevent (or make it difficult for) their users from using GEDCOM to leave their programs/applications.

Ken

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Last edit: by norwegian_sardines.

Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 4 weeks 2 days ago #17

bertkoor Offline Platinum Member Greetings from Utrecht, Holland Posts: 2203	ChrisAndersen wrote: 0 @S2@ SOUR 1 ABBR BIRT 1 TITL BIRT 1 REFN 1 1 TEXT Lars Severin, Potsdam 1 NOTE BIRT, TITL value "BIRT" is what is shown as link to the ssource at the birth event. Looks alright. What else did you expect? stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13
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Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 4 weeks 2 days ago #18

norwegian_sardines
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ChrisAndersen wrote:

0 @S2@ SOUR
1 ABBR BIRT
1 TITL BIRT
1 REFN 1
1 TEXT Lars Severin, Potsdam
1 NOTE BIRT,

Added later. But this is exactly why the Source display has:

Geburt:
um 1585
Quelle: BIRT

The TITL on the SOURCE_RECORD says "BIRT", Therefore the display of the source title of the Birth information with have the value "BIRT".

Chris, what would you like us to do. The SOUR.TITL has the word "BIRT" how can we help to make this different unless you change these by hand for any place that has this value to some title that will have a meaningful title?

Ken

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Last edit: by norwegian_sardines.

Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 4 weeks 2 days ago #19

ChrisAndersen
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Greetings from Århus, Denmark
Posts: 130

Thanks for the question :-)

btw. Your cannot see it here but BIRT on the frontend is linked to the real title. So the real title of the source can be found in the file. So if I replace BIRT by hand with the real title of the source I also have to remove the real titles by hand. That would really be waste of time.

This mess is a product of genealogy software which is used before I got the file to merge it.
Meaning the obviously wrong structure is made automatically for thousands of records in the file.

I just want to find out if there is a way to repair this file automatically
or
half automated with notepad++ for example
or
if the only way for me is to go through many many records by hand.

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Last edit: by ChrisAndersen.

Gedcom Import from PC-Ahnen 4 weeks 2 days ago #20

Sir Peter
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Posts: 110

Sorry, I must have missed that second block of GEDCOM code.

Although it is GEDCOM compliant, using BIRT everywhere doesn't seem to very smart. It caused all this confusion. Either the program creating this GEDCOM output was using bad practice or the user(s) who maintained these data did.

One option to correct this: If this Lars Severin from Potsdam is the source of this information then you could change the title of that source to "Information provided by Lars Severin, Potsdam" and remove all those GEDCOM lines that don't provide any benefit.

In case there is no tangible source document available it is good practice to create your own sources like "Interview with grandma Laura Walker on Christmas eve 1989" or "Personal notes taken during interview...", "E-Mail from... received on..." or something similar. This is much better than having a source or even multiple sources called "BIRT" or having no source at all. You could even replace all these dubious sources by a source "GEDCOM file received from ... on January 6th 2021 exported from PC-Ahnen version x.y".

Peter

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Last edit: by Sir Peter.

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