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Old marriages not showing 1 month 3 weeks ago #1

  • indie
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I have several 20thC marriages which do not show unless I am logged on. Ie No one else can see them either although the wives are located in the box for wife. The marriages I am currently thinking of were in 1929 and 1938 although there are a couple of others I noticed ages ago. All people involved are long dead. Is there some way of changing this? I also have similar period 20thC marriages which are visible in public view so the problem is not consistent. Can't work out what is wrong or how to fix it.

Thanks for your assistance

indie
familytree.kerry.net.au/

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Old marriages not showing 1 month 3 weeks ago #2

  • fisharebest
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The families probably have living children.

The privacy rules are explained here: webtrees.net/user/privacy/
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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Old marriages not showing 1 month 1 week ago #3

I am having the same problem - and I don't really see how to resolve it. I have been trying to have webtrees replicate its old behaviour without success.

Now, the family page is completely restricted, if it contains a living child and with that the associated marriage entry. However in an indivdual's family tab, you can still see the family unit with all privately marked children - as well as details on the deceased ones. Furthermore, the family page stays visible, if no children are entered, regardless if they exist or not.

In my view this renders the privacy somewhat arbitrary, and I'd really like to have back an option to have the family page replicate the family tab again, so old marriages can stay visible to visitors even if (privately marked) children exist.

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Old marriages not showing 1 month 1 week ago #4

  • eh215
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What you are describing is the expected behavior depending on your privacy settings, and as far as I am aware, it accurately demonstrates how webtrees has worked back to the earliest version.

webtrees has to work acceptably for those of us who enter living-persons' information as well as for those that only enter a name into their tree once the individual has died.

When an individual's marriage is hidden by the privacy rules, the Family tab is also hidden, so I am a little confused by your comments.

The link you provided in your posting shows a Pedigree page, and appears to be working as designed, it hides the names and dates of all living or recently-deceased individuals but the colored blocks show that they DO exist and haven't been omitted.

The Pedigree Tree page you linked to does not show dates of marriages, could you provide some examples illustrating more specifically what you would like to see displayed?

You can make significant modifications to the level of information that is shown by changing the privacy settings for your tree, but if not careful you can also expose significant personal information on living individuals unless you have a policy of only entering people into your tree after they have died. For example, knowing the date of a marriage may seem like a minor and trivial piece of information but it allows someone with bad intent to more accurately guess the age and possibly birthplace of still-living children.
    Control panel / Manage family trees / <select a tree> / Privacy
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PHP 7.4.16

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Old marriages not showing 1 month 1 week ago #5

What you are describing is the expected behavior depending on your privacy settings, and as far as I am aware, it accurately demonstrates how webtrees has worked back to the earliest version.

Webtrees has to work acceptably for those of us who enter living-persons' information as well as for those that only enter a name into their tree once the individual has died.

When an individual's marriage is hidden by the privacy rules, the Family tab is also hidden, so I am a little confused by your comments.

The link you provided in your posting shows a Pedigree page, and appears to be working as designed, it hides the names and dates of all living or recently-deceased individuals but the colored blocks show that they DO exist and haven't been omitted.

The Pedigree Tree page you linked to does not show dates of marriages, could you provide some examples illustrating more specifically what you would like to see displayed?

You can make significant modifications to the level of information that is shown by changing the privacy settings for your tree, but if not careful you can also expose significant personal information on living individuals unless you have a policy of only entering people into your tree after they have died. For example, knowing the date of a marriage may seem like a minor and trivial piece of information but it allows someone with bad intent to more accurately guess the age and possibly birthplace of still-living children.
    Control panel / Manage family trees / <select a tree> / Privacy


My memory is habitually faulty, but I do remember a previous webtrees behaviour, where the family page and its associated events (marriage/census) was accessible even in the presence of living persons (who'se details were obvously blanked out).

I'll use my grandfather as example:

www.bryld.dk/wbt/tree/bryld/individual/I96/Aage-Emanuel-Nielsen

As guest, you can (bottom right box) see his connection to my grandmother and the existence of two living sons and one living daughter - as well as the details of my deceased uncle. His marriage date and place of marriage cannot be seen among his life events.

As I remember the pre-2.0 webtrees behaviour, you could previously - as guest - see their marriage details, and you could acces the family page showing only the same details as the bottom right box.

I cannot find a way of reproducing this behaviour in the privacy settings short of allowing living individuals to be showed to guests - which is not what I want.

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Old marriages not showing 1 month 1 week ago #6

OK - To whom this may actually concern - which doesn't seem to be Greg or any other developer:

This to me important issue may be somewhat solved by modifying the default_resn table in the database.

My primary GEDCOM contains a little less than 2000 families, so I have made an SQL-query unblocking the first 2400 families like this:
INSERT INTO `default_resn` (`default_resn_id`, `gedcom_id`, `xref`, `tag_type`, `resn`, `comment`, `updated`) VALUES
(1,1,'F1',NULL,'none',NULL,'2021-01-01 00:00:00'),
(2,1,'F2',NULL,'none',NULL,'2021-01-01 00:00:00'),

etc...

It is a really ugly hack, but at least Webtrees behaves the way I want on my page now.

I would have appreciated a more developer-sanctioned way of achieving this, but it would seem, my request didn't even deserve an answer.

I don't feel naturally entitled to a solution, not even to helpful advice, though I did at least expect a refusal.

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Old marriages not showing 1 month 1 week ago #7

  • norwegian_sardines
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Bryld,

Your attitude here is very unfair to all of the volunteers that have jobs and lives outside of webtrees, this includes Greg and any other developer, who only do this for fun, are not paid and are busy trying to fix issues that are needed in other areas.

It seams to me that you want all FAMily records for visitors to be completely displayed regardless of the impact that data displays on the privacy of living individuals. I for one along with most other users of webtrees are not interested in this state.

However, If this is true, did you try to add an additional line to the “Privacy Restrictions” section for the specific tree in your database? I have not tried this but I think you can add a “Family” restriction with “all fact and events” show to “visitors”.

This may work. But again, you must experiment with these settings, I don’t advocate showing too much information about families that contain living individuals because this information can be used against these people by bad people”.
Ken

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Old marriages not showing 1 month 1 week ago #8


It seams to me that you want all FAMily records for visitors to be completely displayed regardless of the impact that data displays on the privacy of living individuals. I for one along with most other users of webtrees are not interested in this state.

However, If this is true, did you try to add an additional line to the “Privacy Restrictions” section for the specific tree in your database? I have not tried this but I think you can add a “Family” restriction with “all fact and events” show to “visitors”.


Yes, I tried what you suggest. It cannnot be done through the UI, which only allows for exempting one family at a time, but I tried adding a general family record into the table. It correctly showed up in the UI's control panel but didn't work, as it was overruled by the script itself.

As for attitude, I personally find it quite rude to maintain absolute radio silence over several days on this subject and simultaneously being extremely active in lots of other threads.

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Old marriages not showing 1 month 1 week ago #9

  • fisharebest
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> which doesn't seem to be Greg or any other developer:

Sorry for not replying earlier. I am moving house this week, and haven't had much in the way of extended time periods at the computer, so I've only been making brief responses...

There is a recently-reported bug that describes the issue you discussed on the families tab.

github.com/fisharebest/webtrees/issues/3809

IIRC the logic that families are private if any family member (not just spouses) are private was introduced right at the beginning of webtrees. If not 1.0, then soon after.

(I need to leave the house now, and will try to come back to this later).
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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Old marriages not showing 1 month 1 week ago #10

Thanks, Greg - much appreciated.

Sorry for all the crankiness. I just felt very ignored, and my personal problem is solved for now.

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Old marriages not showing 1 month 1 week ago #11

  • fisharebest
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> This to me important issue may be somewhat solved by modifying the default_resn table in the database.

In terms of performance, it is generally better to add a restriction (i.e. "1 RESN xxx") to the family record.

The "default_resn" table gets loaded for every page, and reading an extra 2000+ rows will take a few extra milliseconds.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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Old marriages not showing 1 month 1 week ago #12

> This to me important issue may be somewhat solved by modifying the default_resn table in the database.

In terms of performance, it is generally better to add a restriction (i.e. "1 RESN xxx") to the family record.

The "default_resn" table gets loaded for every page, and reading an extra 2000+ rows will take a few extra milliseconds.


Yes - but my desktop app is not able to add that RESN automatically to the GEDCOM, if that’s what you mean.

I tried to make a generic record in the default_resn table setting privacy ‘none’ for the tag FAM, like the restricting record I had for tag SSN. It turned up seemingly fine in the privacy UI, but it didn’t work at all. It must have been overruled by the script itself.

Likewise, setting privacy ‘none’ for the MARR tag wouldn’t work, probably being overruled by the FAM privacy state, that marriages are subordinate to.


Edit: I eventually followed your advice and put the "1 RESN none" line after all my families in my exported GEDCOM. Turned out, that my @Fxxxx@ numbers due to frequent edits were approaching 5000, so only about half my families were accessible anyway. Still a bit of a kludge, but it'll do for now.

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Last edit: by Bryld.
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