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historical events in the chosen language 2 weeks 5 days ago #1

  • otmar.mayr
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A long time ago, the desire was expressed to link the historical events with the chosen language again. That was the case with version 1.x. The users could see the historical events of their own country. After change of the language, the historical events was automatical changed. That worked perfectly.

I have now only activated the Austrian events in Webtrees version 2.x. If I were to activate all historical events in a foreign language, the family sheet would be totally overloaded - and this with texts in various foreign languages.

I also use my own texts, which I unfortunately have to upload again and again after an update because they are overwritten by the update. It would be nice if I could be spared this work.
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historical events in the chosen language 2 weeks 5 days ago #2

I think, you should write your own historical events Modul. I thing, ít is not very complicated.

I think it is not a good practice to give data depending on language used by user. For example I have an user in Australia who is using Australian English language. But 90 % percent of the tree is from Austria-Hungary. So historical events from Australia are not so relevant to the tree.
Perhaps it should be better to have the possibility the user himself cann decide which historical evants to display. But also a possibility for the admin to say this facts should be displayed for all individuals and this facts only for this individuals. I am sure this is a big project, and I am quite sure it will not be realised in the near future.

But please no automatisation based on the language. Except we are talking about multilanguage facts.

Ladislav
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Last edit: by rola.

historical events in the chosen language 2 weeks 1 day ago #3

  • fisharebest
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historical events in the chosen language 2 weeks 1 day ago #4

rola wrote: I think, you should write your own historical events Modul. I thing, ít is not very complicated.

I think it is not a good practice to give data depending on language used by user. For example I have an user in Australia who is using Australian English language. But 90 % percent of the tree is from Austria-Hungary. So historical events from Australia are not so relevant to the tree.
Perhaps it should be better to have the possibility the user himself cann decide which historical evants to display. But also a possibility for the admin to say this facts should be displayed for all individuals and this facts only for this individuals. I am sure this is a big project, and I am quite sure it will not be realised in the near future.

But please no automatisation based on the language. Except we are talking about multilanguage facts.

Ladislav


IMHO it's a good idea to enhance the historical modules by the centralized possibility to translate them. Then we can use the help of native speakers for translations as is allready done by webtrees.

That said, every admin should offcourse become the config-option to show specific modules or not.
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Last edit: by Lars1963.

historical events in the chosen language 2 weeks 1 day ago #5

  • otmar.mayr
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The administrator should be able to decide which historical events he shows on his Webtrees installation.It would be important that the events do not during an update overwritten.

At WT 1.7 I used historical events in differend foreign language. I had taken over the texts from Wikipedia - in each case with a link to the corresponding source. These texts are so good in my opinion that these are not being reinvented have to.

If registered users could choose historical events in his account, that would be perfect. It would fit in there because the registered user is there can also make other settings.

In the case of random visitors, in my opinion it would be sufficient if Language with the associated historical events could selected.
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historical events in the chosen language 2 weeks 1 day ago #6

  • hermann
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There are several aspects in this topic:

1. Which historic event modules are presented to a user? Only the administrator can select which modules are activated; a user can switch the presentation of historic data on and off. Maybe it is a good idea to allow a user (member/visitor) to select the presentation of historic data only using some of the activated modules instead of the actual global on/off function. Modules with historic data can be part of the webtrees core or can be custom modules. If they are part of the core, then they will be - by design - overridden whenever you update webtrees. If they are part of a custom module then they are overwritten only if you update this module explicitly.

2. The language a user prefers. Every user prefers a language for the user interface of webtrees, which can be may be set by default based on the configuration of his browser or selected explicitly using the webtrees menu "language" presenting all the languages which are supported by webtrees. This is used for the user interface but not to translate custom data in a tree like occupations or causes of death. For example, if a person was a farmer and died at Spanish flu, this is coded in the GEDCOM of my (German) tree as "Bauer" and "Spanische Grippe" and would be never translated. The question is now: are historic events part of the user interface or custom data? Let me discuss this in my point 4. It makes for me no sense to choose the presented historic events based on the preferred interface language of a user.

3. Which historic events should be shown at the "individual tab" of webtrees? At the moment the events are selected based on the dates: the dates in the timeline of the presented person and the dates belonging to the historic events. For example, the presented individual "John Doe" lived from 1800 to 1850 in the USA and a historic module with battles and wars worldwide is activated. Then all the battles and wars happening worldwide from 1800 to 1850 will be shown in the timeline of this person. If John Doe had never left the USA, maybe it would be interesting to show only wars and battles in the USA, but this is not possible at the moment and is not easy to implement. What if John Doe was a soldier fighting for France and died in a battle between France and Germany? Then it would be interesting to show this battle in his timeline. At the moment the only possibility for an administrator is to define the regional focus of his trees (for example USA) and activate only those historic modules which have the same focus, for example, do not activate a module with German kings or presidents. But this is not very precise because the focus will be never precise if you have more than a few persons in your trees. If there is no focus the administrator can only activate all historic data modules and the user will see in this case many, maybe too many events in the timeline of a person, which are not interesting for the life of this person, and which are not interesting for the user. Another less important point is the "overlapping time frame", for example, what should happen if there's was a war lasting from 1798 to 1801: should it be shown in the timeline of John Doe or not?

4. Language in which historic events are presented: At the moment the most entries in historic data modules have a similar structure:
- event name
- event type
- event date
- description and/or source

For example in my module " german-wars-and-battles-worldwide " there are records like:
"1 EVEN Ägyptische Expedition\n2 TYPE ".$conflict."\n2 DATE FROM 1798 TO 1801\2 NOTE siehe [wikipedia ".$wikipedia."](https://".$wikipedia.".wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%84gyptische_Expedition )",
"1 EVEN Schlacht bei den Pyramiden (Ägypten)\n2 TYPE ".$battle."\n2 DATE 21 JUL 1798\n2 NOTE Frankreich besiegt die Mamluken; siehe [wikipedia ".$wikipedia."](https://".$wikipedia.".wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlacht_bei_den_Pyramiden )",
"1 EVEN Seeschlacht bei Abukir\n2 TYPE ".$naval_battle."\n2 DATE FROM 01 AUG 1798 TO 02 AUG 1798\n2 NOTE Großbritannien besiegt Frankreich; siehe [wikipedia ".$wikipedia."](https://".$wikipedia.".wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeschlacht_bei_Abukir )",
"1 EVEN Zweiter Koalitionskrieg\n2 TYPE ".$war."\n2 DATE FROM 1799 TO 1802\2 NOTE siehe [wikipedia ".$wikipedia."](https://".$wikipedia.".wikipedia.org/wiki/Zweiter_Koalitionskrieg )",
I made the part "event type" translatable:
        $conflict = I18N::translate('conflict');
        $war = I18N::translate('war');
        $battle = I18N::translate('battle');
        $naval_battle = I18N::translate('naval battle');
So in order to make all the content of this module translatable, it would be necessary to make additionally the event name and the event description translatable. Possible, but a lot of work to be done by many translators for the more than 1,600 events in this module. If there are links to external multilanguage sites like Wikipedia it would be a good idea to make the target language configurable by an administrator. At the moment my module uses a hardcoded
$wikipedia = "de";
but it would be easy to make this an option in the control panel.

I suggest that all historic modules have at least the event type in a translatable form.
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historical events in the chosen language 2 weeks 1 day ago #7

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> allow a user (member/visitor) to select the presentation of historic data

You are overestimating your members & visitors. None of mine have ever bothered switching their theme.
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historical events in the chosen language 2 weeks 1 day ago #8

bertkoor wrote: You are overestimating your members & visitors. None of mine have ever bothered switching their theme.


You are absolutely correct.

But I have at least one user, who is very interested into this topics - me.
So for me is quite interesting for individuals befor 1918 to see the Austrian historical facts, for the period after 1918 its interesting only in very rare occasions. And always to go to the control panel and switch a modul on/off is not a good solution.

Ladislav
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historical events in the chosen language 2 weeks 1 day ago #9

  • fisharebest
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> $wikipedia = "de";

For wikipedia, you must change the full URL, not just the subdomain. e.g.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Trafalgar
fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_de_Trafalgar
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historical events in the chosen language 2 weeks 23 hours ago #10

  • otmar.mayr
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> At the moment my module uses a hardcoded
> $wikipedia = "de";
> but it would be easy to make this an option in the control panel.

I would like to point out that there are other sources besides Wikipedia.
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historical events in the chosen language 2 weeks 20 hours ago #11

  • otmar.mayr
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I have currently still grouped the historical events: religious events, wars, rulers, historical events

"1 EVEN Ludwig der Fromme\n2 TYPE Herrscher\n2 DATE BET 778 AND 840\n2 SOUR [Wikipedia: Ludwig der Fromme...](de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_der_Fromme)\n3 CONT Ludwig I. (genannt Ludwig der Fromme, französisch Louis le Pieux; * Juni/August 778 in Chasseneuil bei Poitiers; † 20. Juni 840 in Ingelheim am Rhein) war König des Fränkischen Reiches (in Aquitanien seit 781, im Gesamtreich seit 814) und Kaiser (813–840). Er war Sohn und Nachfolger Karls des Großen und führte dessen Reformpolitik zunächst erfolgreich weiter. In Auseinandersetzungen mit seinen eigenen Söhnen zweimal vorübergehend abgesetzt (830, 833/34), gelang es Ludwig dem Frommen jedoch nicht, ein überlebensfähiges fränkisches Großreich zu schaffen – drei Jahre nach seinem Tod wurde das Frankenreich im Vertrag von Verdun (843) aufgeteilt.",

This depiction of historical events wastes too much space. The age in brackets is confusing.

So I recommend putting age first. After that there should be a short text linked to the source. The word "source" should not be visible, because if you click on the link, the source can be seen anyway.

Example for a person born in 803:

Alter von 1 Jahr: Sachsenkriege Karls des Großen dauerten zwischen 772 bis etwa 804.
Alter von 13 Jahren: Leo III. (c750-816) war Papst von 795 bis 816.
Alter von 37 Jahren: Ludwig der Fromme (778-840) war von 813 bis 840 Kaiser des Fränkischen Reiches.
Alter von 39 Jahren: Innerdynastische Kämpfe der Karolinger waren von 830 bis 842.
Alter von 40 Jahren: Karl der Kahle (823-877) wurde im Jahre 843 Westfränkischer König.
Alter von 74 Jahren: Karl der Kahle (823-877) war von 875 bis 877 König von Italien und Römischer Kaiser.

If there is no source, we should be able to add more text under CONT.
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historical events in the chosen language 2 weeks 18 hours ago #12

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otmar.mayr wrote: So I recommend putting age first. After that there should be a short text linked to the source. The word "source" should not be visible, because if you click on the link, the source can be seen anyway.


Both age and source behave (almost) exactly as elsewhere in webtrees and I'd vote to keep it like that. The only difference I see is that for historic events there is a linebreak after "Source:" and I'd prefer this linebreak to be removed.

otmar.mayr wrote: ...we should be able to add more text under CONT.


Instead of extending the SOUR tag with a CONT tag I suggest to add a NOTE tag. Simply replace 3 CONT with 2 NOTE.
Peter

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historical events in the chosen language 2 weeks 16 hours ago #13

  • hermann
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fisharebest wrote: > $wikipedia = "de";

For wikipedia, you must change the full URL, not just the subdomain. e.g.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Trafalgar
fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_de_Trafalgar


My idea for that was: use the original link to Wikipedia (in my case to the German Wikipedia), check (using the Wikimedia web service) if there is a corresponding Wikipedia article in the desired target language (for example in the French Wikipedia), and use this as a link in the NOTE/SOUR of the historic data record. If there is no corresponding article available, then use the link to the original Wikipedia version. But I have to check if the performance is ok.

@Otmar: sure there are other sources than Wikipedia, but for historic events, Wikipedia is a very good source and is available in many languages.
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