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Places changes 1 month 1 week ago #1

  • Benazzi
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I've noted that some places that my research uses have changed on "real life", like fusioned with others places. As example, two cities (Chavagnac and Grèzes) became one (Les Coteaux Périgourdins) and three regions (Aquitaine, Limousin and Poitou-Charentes) became one either (Nouvelle-Aquitaine).

I would like to update these places without lost the original information and adding some extra information, like when occurred the name change using maybe a shared note.

Is there some easy way? Or some tip? I've planned to use a simple text replace at GEDCOM, associated with new places coordinates but would like to know if someone have another idea ou even already had to do this.

Kind regards

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Places changes 1 month 1 week ago #2

  • Peter_S
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Hello Benazzi,

I apologize to try the custom module SharedPlaces by ric2016. This module is able to maintain different place names at different time periods.
Peter

webtrees 1.7.18 and 2.0.17, vesta modules
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Places changes 1 month 1 week ago #3

  • Benazzi
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Hi Peter,

Thanks for your reply, I'll try.

Kind regards

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Places changes 1 month 1 week ago #4

  • Gustine
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Hello,
For my part, I did not change the regions (except Normandie). I even hesitated to delete them because they are useless in genealogy, the archives being departmental.
For the fusion of communes, I have considered the old communes as subdivisions of the new ones:
Saint-Martin-du-Bois, Maine-et-Loire, Pays de la Loire, France is now
Saint-Martin-du-Bois, Segré-en-Anjou Bleu, Maine-et-Loire, Pays de la Loire, France
webtrees 2.0 - Mageia 7 (php 7.3)

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Last edit: by Gustine.

Places changes 1 month 1 week ago #5

  • Benazzi
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Hi Gustine,

I liked your ideia, but I like to keep the places adminstrative organization closer as possible as real, without lost the place name history. I will not exclude the places coordinates, but create new ones.

I know that this is not the right place, but maybe a new feature could help this: similar as used on www.gov.genealogy.net/, place management could follow some range of dates as criteria. Using Italy as a example: currently is a republic, but between 1861 and 1948 was a Kingdon. Then, if I register a event on Rome as 1900 as example, should appear that were occurred in the Kingdon of Italy, but it will appear together of other events in Rome that occurred in 1970 as example. And maybe, at places management, some information could be listed to inform this.

In the GEDCOM, the record could be left as user option (Rome, Italy or Rome, Kingdon of Italy).

Kind regards

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Places changes 1 month 6 days ago #6

  • fisharebest
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My approach is to keep the historic place names in the sources and citations.

But I use the modern place names in the "place" fields.

Suppose you do not know tbe (exact) date for an event. You cannot know which historic name to use. So here, yiu must use the modern name.

My approach keeps this consistent
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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Last edit: by fisharebest.

Places changes 1 month 6 days ago #7

  • Benazzi
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Hi Greg,

My approach is similar, but the initial point is how to make this update for several events when a place changes his name or fusion with another one, and keeping some information of the original place.
The places that I used as example on first post were the event occurs when it happens but currently they are a new one.
I've planned to left original place reference at ADDR field, include info about the name change, include geographic data of the new places and finally change events places. The 4th event is easier using data fix. The 3rd a bit less, I'll use spreadsheet to include before import. The 1st and 2nd are the worst part. I need to change GEDCOM directly, adding a address data tag to those that do not have or include info when some already have. And include xref of shared notes to all events of these places.
And this became I nightmare when you realize that after a huge effort to change several events, discover a new places name fusion, that you do not discovered before or occurs after your data change.

Kind regards

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Places changes 1 month 6 days ago #8

  • hermann
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From my point of view, it makes no sense that every researcher tries to keep track of such changes in location data. It is better to use a collaborative approach and use a gazetteer like GOV . There everybody can contribute to enhancing the quality of location data. You can use GOV by installing a custom webtrees "Vesta" module as suggested by Peter_S.
Hermann
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Places changes 1 month 6 days ago #9

  • Benazzi
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Hi Hermann,

I agree with you, collaborative is the best way. But currently in webtrees place or geographical data is local, using CSV data uploaded. And GOV is a bit outdated for some places. I cannot comment about Vesta module, I've not analysed yet to have a conclusion.
Anyway, the main point is how to manage these type of change. Maybe some improvement at data fix. For now, some hard work for this.

Kind regards

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Places changes 1 month 6 days ago #10

  • ric2015
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I cannot comment about Vesta module, I've not analysed yet to have a conclusion.


You should do that first, because most of what you need is already there.

Either in the GOV module or in the Shared Places module, for which see an overview here - in particular the part about 'using explicit references' may be just what you're looking for.
Richard

webtrees 2.0.17 at cissee.de/webtrees2
Vesta custom modules (Classic Look & Feel, Gov4Webtrees, Shared Places, Extended Relationships) available at cissee.de

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Places changes 1 month 6 days ago #11

  • Benazzi
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Hi Richard,

Thanks, I'll. And some of my suggestions could improve some feature of Vesta modules, feel free to use.

Kind regards

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Places changes 1 week 1 day ago #12

  • Manja
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And GOV is a bit outdated for some places.


GOV is collaborative. If you've got an account you can update the information.

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Places changes 1 week 1 day ago #13

  • norwegian_sardines
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Manja said:

GOV is collaborative. If you've got an account you can update the information

GOV is good up to a point! This only works when the places are government based locations, more than half of my places include details like churches, graves, farms, houses, hospitals, businesses, etc these would be too much for GOV to support.
Ken

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Last edit: by norwegian_sardines.

Places changes 4 days 23 hours ago #14

  • WGroleau
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My approach is to keep the historic place names in the sources and citations.

But I use the modern place names in the "place" fields.

Suppose you do not know tbe (exact) date for an event. You cannot know which historic name to use. So here, yiu must use the modern name.

My approach keeps this consistent

Also, people who want to do genealogical research will figure out where the sources are. Every one else will just want to know the location.
--
Wes Groleau
UniGen.us/

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