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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 1 day ago #1

  • philld
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For about a year and half now I have been using webtrees as my primary genealogy software. I do like some of the reporting that the Legacy software provides and for the time being at least, I have a MyHeritage tree for the matching so frequently export my webtrees data and import it into those two programs.

I have recently noticed however that when I import the webtrees gedcom into either of these applications, any marriages that I have entered through webtrees is not being reflected in the other software. The individuals are there if I go to add them so they are at least being created.

I have tried to look at the raw gedcom data and noticed that for some of the marriages (the webtrees marriages) I had a "1 MARR Y" but looking at a marriage that I had created way back in in either Legacy or MyHeritage before transferring it to webtrees did not have that. So to test if that might be the issue, I edited the gedcom changing the "1 MARR Y" to "1 MARR" and imported the gedcom. No difference - the marriage still did not show.

Next, I noticed the positioning of the "1 FAMC" and "1 FAMS". For records created with webtrees, the "1 FAMS" came after any object records for the individuals whereas for records that had been created with one of the other pieces of software they were immediately after each other with the FAMS preceding the FAMC one. To see if this had any affect, I moved the FAMS record for a marriage immediately before the FAMC for the male of the family. This too had no success when the gedcom was imported.

Am at a lost now as to why marriage events that have been created in webtrees are not being reflected in the other genealogy programs. Marriages that had been entered in both of the other software and imported into webtrees and then exported and imported back into the other software are reflected correctly. Is it possible I missed doing something in webtrees when I entered the marriage?

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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 1 day ago #2

  • norwegian_sardines
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Did the MyHeritage software produce any errors when you imported the GEDCOM?

1 MARR Y is a valid marriage GEDCOM statement. It normally happens when no date or place tags are present in the MARR tag.

To see if your other software does not support a no date and no place construct, add these subtags to one of the 1 MARR, it would look like this.

1 MARR
2 DATE 2 MAR 1923
2 PLAC USA

See if this makes a difference,

Also the order of any tags at level 1 should make no difference, the order of level 1 tags is no significant.

Can you tell in the MyHeritage application if any, all or no family record is created? This would be important to show the parents, children of the family?

If you export a GEDCOM out of MyHeritage after you import the webtrees GEDCOM does it produce a valid FAM record? Does it contain a MARR tag?

Otherwise I am at a loss as well.
Ken

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Last edit: by norwegian_sardines.

Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 1 day ago #3

  • fisharebest
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As a test, can you create a family/marriage in Legacy, and export it to a GEDCOM file.

What does it contain? Does it use the same structure that you see in webtrees?

Can Legacy import the GEDCOM file that it created?
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 16 hours ago #4

  • philld
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Thanks for the feedback. Based on the questions / suggestions I have done some more testing and here are my findings:
1) Errors from MyHeritage Import - Yes - I have created a summary (from Family Tree Builder - the client desktop app)
Family Tree Builder Log File
Issues encountered during the upgrade C:\Users\LPWin\DermottFT1.ged

Unstructured Dates
==================
PROVINCE ONTARIOLINE 4|
PROVINCE ONTARIOLINE 13|
PROVINCE ONTARIOFAMILY 15|
PROVINCE ONTARIOLINE 24|
PROVINCE ONTARIOLINE 15|
ECCLESIASTICAL DISTRICT M FARLEYENUM DISTRICT 8|
24 TH DECEMBER 1811  (appears 3 times)
1871 CENSUS
AUB 26 1995  (appears 3 times)

Non-standard Custom Events
==========================
Career
_UPD  (appears 10 times)

Unrecognized tags
=================
Custom tag: _WT_USER, Hierarchy: INDI-CHAN-_WT_USER, Incidents: 1818
Custom tag: _WT_USER, Hierarchy: FAM-CHAN-_WT_USER, Incidents: 89
Non-standard tag: MARR, Hierarchy: FAM-MARR, Incidents: 1
Custom tag: _WT_USER, Hierarchy: SOUR-CHAN-_WT_USER, Incidents: 2
Non-standard tag: FORM, Hierarchy: OBJE-FILE-FORM, Incidents: 1771
Custom tag: _WT_USER, Hierarchy: OBJE-CHAN-_WT_USER, Incidents: 365

2) I created two "simple" trees in webtrees - each with three individuals - husband, wife, child - one with a marriage date and the second without a marriage date - both imported fine to Legacy - the family unit in each case was intact.

3) Re the particular family that I am looking at from the original gedcom, when imported, only the husband appears in the tree (originally created in FTB (MyHeritage)), the wife and child (created in webtrees) did not appear. I could however search for the wife and child and found them - there was no family information from what I could tell for any of the three individuals - they appeared to be "free standing" individuals other that the husband being connected with his father and mother. The wife and child had no connections.

4) Comparing the gedcom of a simple tree created in Legacy and a simple tree created in webtrees, the only difference that I noticed was that the Legacy file had a "_UID" tag for each individual i.e. "1 _UID 555831FEC2BB4C1E8F16E960EB6D41014B11"

5) Legacy exported the file and imported the file with no problems.

Other
Below are the errors from the Legacy import report of the original gedcom for the three members of the family in which only the husband shows up and the wife and child are "free standing" individuals.
    Main Record: 0 @I2342@ INDI
  Sub Section: 1 BIRT 
* Unrecog. Line for an Individual  Record: 2 _UID 71EB0990-0D3A-4943-8E4A-949EFA94980D
  Placed in  Note - S**** A*** Dermott: BIRT: _UID 71EB0990-0D3A-4943-8E4A-949EFA94980D
----------------------------------------
    Main Record: 0 @I2342@ INDI
  Sub Section: 1 BIRT 
* Unrecog. Line for an Individual  Record: 2 RIN MH:IF3418
  Placed in  Note - S**** A*** Dermott: BIRT: RIN MH:IF3418
----------------------------------------
    Main Record: 0 @I2342@ INDI
  Sub Section: 1 CHAN 
* Unrecog. Line for an Individual  Record: 2 _WT_USER phild
  Placed in  Note - S**** A*** Dermott: CHAN: _WT_USER phild
  
    Main Record: 0 @X13314@ INDI
  Sub Section: 1 CHAN 
* Unrecog. Line for an Individual  Record: 2 _WT_USER phild
  Placed in  Note - M***** Broughton: CHAN: _WT_USER phild
----------------------------------------
    Main Record: 0 @X13316@ INDI
  Sub Section: 1 CHAN 
* Unrecog. Line for an Individual  Record: 2 _WT_USER phild
  Placed in  Note - A**** M***** R*** Dermott: CHAN: _WT_USER phild

Hopefully this gives some insight as to what may be happening.

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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 15 hours ago #5

  • norwegian_sardines
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Philld,

I’m looking at your unstructured date error message.
PROVINCE ONTARIOLINE 4|
24 TH DECEMBER 1811
1871 CENSUS
AUB 26 1995

Did you enter these in webtrees? These are not a standard date. Dates should follow this format:
day + month code + year.

For example:
24 DEC 1811
1871
26 AUG 1995

HOWEVER, In my opinion this should not have prevented the fact from being added to the database!

The unrecognized tags and events, would be normal, and should not prevent a fact or individual from being added to the database.

The errors in the second listing are also simple things that a well behaving import should ignore and should not prevent the addition of a fact or individual into the database.

Since the import problem can be pinpointed to a particular husband, wife and family record set, maybe you should include those GEDCOM records from the webtrees in one of your posts. If it is a data issue where your other programs don’t support something you enter in webtrees then I would need to see that data to point it out.
Ken

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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 15 hours ago #6

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Philld,

I’m looking at your unstructured date error message.
PROVINCE ONTARIOLINE 4|
24 TH DECEMBER 1811
1871 CENSUS
AUB 26 1995

Did you enter these in webtrees? These are not a standard date. Dates should follow this format:
day + month code + year.

For example:
24 DEC 1811
1871
26 AUG 1995

HOWEVER, In my opinion this should not have prevented the fact from being added to the database!

The unrecognized tags and events, would be normal, and should not prevent a fact or individual from being added to the database.

The errors in the second listing are also simple things that a well behaving import should ignore and should not prevent the addition of a fact or individual into the database.

Since the import problem can be pinpointed to a particular husband, wife and family record set, maybe you should include those GEDCOM records from the webtrees in one of your posts. If it is a data issue where your other programs don’t support something you enter in webtrees then I would need to see that data to point it out.
Ken

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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 15 hours ago #7

  • philld
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The unstructured data is most likely from match/merges in MyHeritage - the last one might have been a typo i.e. AUB rather than AUG on my part.

Here is the webtrees gedcom info for the three individuals in question (I have extracted from the larger gedcom file)
0 @I2342@ INDI
1 RIN MH:I2342
1 _UID 0FD1DCFE72654E0587747571D473E9FAEFD1
1 _UPD 1 MAY 2017 12:42:14 GMT-5
1 NAME S**** A*** /Dermott/
2 GIVN S**** A***
2 SURN Dermott
1 SEX M
1 BIRT
2 _UID 71EB0990-0D3A-4943-8E4A-949EFA94980D
2 RIN MH:IF3418
2 DATE 9 NOV 1978
2 PLAC Brampton, Ontario, Canada
1 FAMS @X13315@
1 FAMC @F801@
1 OBJE @X12024@
1 OBJE @X12025@
1 OBJE @X11892@
1 OBJE @X11897@
1 OBJE @X11900@
1 OBJE @X12026@
1 OBJE @X12027@
1 OBJE @X12028@
1 OBJE @X12029@
1 OBJE @X12030@
1 OBJE @X12031@
1 OBJE @X12032@
1 OBJE @X12033@
1 OBJE @X12034@
1 OBJE @X11904@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 17 JAN 2021
3 TIME 18:49:37
2 _WT_USER phild

0 @X13314@ INDI
1 NAME M***** /Broughton/
2 GIVN M*****
2 SURN Broughton
2 _MARNM M***** /Dermott/
1 SEX F
1 FAMS @X13315@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 17 JAN 2021
3 TIME 18:49:37
2 _WT_USER phild
0 @X13316@ INDI
1 NAME A**** M***** R*** /Dermott/
2 GIVN A**** M***** R***
2 SURN Dermott
1 SEX F
1 BIRT
2 DATE 17 JAN 2021
2 PLAC Collingwood, Ontario, Canada
1 FAMC @X13315@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 17 JAN 2021
3 TIME 18:51:55
2 _WT_USER phild

0 @X13315@ FAM
1 WIFE @X13314@
1 HUSB @I2342@
1 MARR
1 CHIL @X13316@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 17 JAN 2021
3 TIME 18:51:55
2 _WT_USER phild

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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 15 hours ago #8

  • fisharebest
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In GEDCOM, links between families and individuals must be recorded twice - once in each direction.

Perhaps this family is missing its "reverse" link?

Go to the control panel in webtrees, and use the family-tree / check-for-errors function.

Look for errors that say "INID has link to FAM, but FAM does not link back", etc.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 15 hours ago #9

  • philld
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Running the check-for-errors function returned:

No errors have been found.

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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 14 hours ago #10

  • norwegian_sardines
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For this family I think I see links in both direction!

For this family what is actually not showing in your software?

I see that the MARR tag has no DATE or PLAC tags. This could be an issue with your software. It may not be able to add a marriage because it thinks it has no data to enter! From. GEDCOM standpoint the marriage fact should have been:

1 MARR Y

But try adding a DATE tag to the GEDOM for this family and re import.

1 MARR
2 DATE 1 JAN 2021

As a test to see if your software has a bug that it does no except facts without DATA and/or PLAC
Ken

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Last edit: by norwegian_sardines.

Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 13 hours ago #11

I can confirm this error / behaviour. I also observe "broken" families when I export a Webtrees Gedcom into MyHeritage Family Tree Builder (FTB). I think it is related by the changes in XREF prefixes, previously 'I', 'F' etc. Now all start with an X. When I create a new tree in webtrees, and all XREF use the new logic then everything is imported correctly in FTB. But when I import my current tree in, which now has a mixture of the old XREF prefixes and new XREF prefixes the errors do occur in FTB, especially for families with the new XREF prefixes. I still do not understand the exact logic, but apperently there is a conflict when different prefixes exist for the same type.
Attached two simple Gedcoms. The first one has only the old XREF labels. In the second one I replace all 'F3' labels for 'X1'. The first file is imported/shown correctly in FTB, the second is not (but no errors during import).
Frans
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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 12 hours ago #12

  • norwegian_sardines
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FransW,

If FTB does not support the GEDCOM Standard for XREF, then I would open an issue with FTB indicating to them their software error. From the Standard:

The xref_ID is formed by any arbitrary combination of characters from the pointer_char set. The first character must be an alpha or a digit.


Pointer_char set =
[alpha | digit | otherchar | (0x23) | (0x20 ) ]
where:
(0x20)=space character 
(0x23)=#

Also, since an XREF does not need to be maintained in the receiving program, they could just read the XREF and change the value within their application to whatever they want, no harm to anyone.
Ken

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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 12 hours ago #13

  • philld
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You have hit upon something. When I edited the original gedcom file and added a date for this marriage and then imported it into both Legacy and Family Tree Builder (MyHeritage) - the family showed up as expected in Legacy but it did not appear in MyHeritage. Since MyHeritage bought Legacy a few years ago, I figured the import from Legacy to FTB might be worth a try. Exported the newly created Legacy family tree to a gedcom file and then imported that to FTB. The family showed up!

Now comparing the input file to Legacy (created from webtrees (with the manually added date)) and the input to FTB (created from Legacy) there were a few "subtle" differences.
1) the wife was listed before the husband in the marriage
2) the Ref number for the family (i.e. @X13315@) had the "X" changed to a "F"
3) the Ref number for the individual (i.e. @X13314@) had the "X" changed to an "I"

Here are the family snipets from the two gedcoms
WEBTREES GEDCOM
0 @X13315@ FAM
1 WIFE @X13314@
1 HUSB @I2342@
1 MARR
2 DATE 31 DEC 2021
1 CHIL @X13316@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 17 JAN 2021
3 TIME 18:51:55
2 _WT_USER phild


LEGACY gedcom (from the import of the webtrees gedcom)
0 @F13315@ FAM
1 HUSB @I2342@
1 WIFE @I13314@
1 MARR
2 DATE 31 Dec 2021
2 NOTE @NF13315@
1 CHIL @I13316@
1 CHAN
2 DATE 17 Jan 2021
3 TIME 18:51
0 @NF13315@ NOTE
1 CONC CHAN: _WT_USER phild
1 CONT

Questions that come to mine:
Should the X, F and I have a difference on the import of the file?
As the MARR statement in the original webtrees gedcom did not have the Y (as expected since both date and place were blank) is there a way to ensure that the "Y" is there when the export is requested? (I know I have other marriages without the date and place information and that is likely why there are not showing up either when imported to Legacy/ FTB.

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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 12 hours ago #14

norwegian_sardines wrote: "If FTB does not support the GEDCOM Standard for XREF, then I would open an issue with FTB indicating to them their software error"



I am aware of this. I hardly use FTB, I also do not have a current membership, so I leave this to someone else. I hope my comment helped philld to find a solution for his problem.

But still unfortunate, that this was caused by ' reparing something in webtrees that wasn't brooken'....
Frans

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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 12 hours ago #15

  • norwegian_sardines
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As the MARR statement in the original webtrees gedcom did not have the Y (as expected since both date and place were blank) is there a way to ensure that the "Y" is there when the export is requested?

Yes, When you add a marriage, you should be able to select a checkbox on the top of the entry screen for the marriage fact.

Should the X, F and I have a difference on the import of the file?

All that is required for an XREF is that it is unique in the system. So X1234 is different and unique from F1234 and I1234 and M1234 and S1234.

An XREF could be “One Trick Pony” if you so desire and it should be taken, just so long that no other record uses that same XREF.
Ken

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Last edit: by norwegian_sardines.

Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 12 hours ago #16

  • philld
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Hmmm - I went back and checked that field and there was a checkmark it in. Removed the checkmark and saved the file, accepted the changes, went back into the marriage record, put a checkmark in the box again, saved and accepted. Exported to a gedcom and now the export has the "Y" after the MARR.

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Import of webtrees GEDCOM into other genealogy software 2 weeks 11 hours ago #17

  • norwegian_sardines
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IIRC, The adding of the “Y” following the MARR should be automatic until you add at Date or Place. I know you talked about changing the GEDCOM in a comment above regarding the MARR.

FTB and other software may or may not support the MARR “Y” tag, I’ve seen cases where they don’t follow GEDCOM rules regarding the data following the fact/event tags.
Ken

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