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TOPIC: Dual Default Individuals

Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #1

  • thjelmstad
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We have two GEDCOMs with the only common individual being a live person. Worse, next generation back - one of the two parents is alive. There doesn't seem to be anyway to set the default individual to get to both sides unless we can set two defaults - or we have to split the setup into 6 GEDCOMS from two. This gets messy because of common ancestors.

Is there anyway to do set multiple default individuals or set several individuals in the "Genealogy from" pane?

Thanks in advance . . .
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #2

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I'm replying to myself - I though of one way - default dead people. We could set the living person to a dummy name and data with a death date - That way people could at least find the surname to go up the other tree. But kind of cumbersome to maintain.

It would be better to make the "living person no data" screen show the parents and their names.

Any way to do that?
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #3

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First question - why do you have more than one tree? Surely far easier to combine them into a single tree?

Second - The term "common individual" is meaningless. Trees are separate. There are no links between them, so dead or living is irrelevant.

Third - It is always sensible to make the default person for each tree a dead person, otherwise your publicly visible "Home page" will never work properly, as most of the information it shows will be marked "Private".

Beyond these clarifications, you will need to explain in more detail what you are trying to achieve (and ideally, why), preferably with pictures to show what you mean by such terms as "...the "Genealogy from" pane ..." which I can only guess at the meaning of.
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #4

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Thanks very much for a prompt reply. I'll try and explain better.

On a "living private person", PHPGedView would show links to the parents and the spouse. If these people were living, links to spouse and parents would show, but if dead the whole record would show. This got the user moving up the tree.

Since we migrated from PHPGEDView, we've seem a remarkable drop in inquiries about the "live private" spouses family while inquiries about the "dead non-private" spouse continue as before.

This is because the record for the living spouse show no information at all - not parents, spouse, anything. You are stopped completely dead in the water with no where to go unless you know a name.

The issue seems to be the Home Page. PHPGEDView had a default individual and so does webtrees. You can see it on the right side in a "Genealogy From" panel with a "Default Individual" and you can set it in admin.

For people not familiar with the family, this doesn't work because I have to set the default to the dead spouse and no one seems to be able to find the live spouse's tree. When they go to the live spouse - they're living and "private" - nothing will show.

Web Trees shows absolutely no information for a live person. So there's no way for a user without some knowledge of the ancestors to guess where - whom - to go next.

I'd like one of two things:

1) I'd like to have a "live private person" record show "dead non-private" connections.
or
2) Be able to place multiple base "dead non-private" "default individuals" with family names labeled so that
- in the case of the tree at norsky.net/GedReed/ , the "dead non-private Bentsen and the parents of the
living spouse "Reed" show.

Either option allows someone with no familiarity of the tree to find their way up. Now they just have to randomly search names.

I think one of these options would solve the issue of people not being able to quickly navigate a tree that they are not familiar with.

Thanks again for the quick reply.

Tony
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #5

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This is because the record for the living spouse show no information at all - not parents, spouse, anything. You are stopped completely dead in the water with no where to go unless you know a name.

In administration > your family tree > privacy tab set "Names of private individuals" to "show to visitors".
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #6

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1) I'd like to have a "live private person" record show "dead non-private" connections.

Use the setting "Show private relationships".

This will allow people to see the structure of the tree, but no names or details.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #7

  • thjelmstad
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Thanks both of you . . . but . . . hmmm

I've got "Show Private Relationships" on:

Privacy options enabled
Show dead people Show to Visitors
Extend privacy to dead people born in the last years or died in the last 3 years
Names of private individuals Show to Members
Show private relationships yes
Age at which to assume a person is dead 120

I'm not sure I want to show "private" names. I turned it on briefly, and then it shows his name - but not his parents because he's still marked as private.

What I want is to show the parents - who are both dead - so people can track up the tree. Neither of these options does that.

I turned the Names of Private individuals back to members only.

Being creative, I tried adding show Births of private individuals and show birth for the problem individual. But they are completely suppressed. Just can't get that to show.

I guess I'll have to add a dummy spouse who's "dead", has a fake name and birthdate, and has the right parents. But I can see someone deciding that I have someone named "Fake Spouse Reed" in the family.

Tony
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #8

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Hi,

What I want is to show the parents - who are both dead - so people can track up the tree

Can't you use « Restrictions for privacy » option, and add these individuals and set them to « show to visitors » ?

Record level privacy restrictions on the Wiki page wiki.webtrees.net/en/Access_and_Privacy
Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Jackie.
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #9

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You could make your root individual public, by adding a "Restriction" of "Show to visitors".

You could then make each of the facts for this individual private, by adding a "Show to members" tag to them.

Your visitors will then see a page with no facts, and all the family links.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #10

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Thanks again. But been there, tried that.

Both suggestions on Restrictions were tried. The record remains a "private" record and no data is shown - it states "That person does not exist or you do not have access".

I added a general restriction to show the birth record for all individuals - it won't. I then tried to show all for the key "private" person. It didn't. Also note here that the restrictions screen only allows you to set "Privacy restrictions - these apply to records and facts that do not contain a GEDCOM RESN tag".

So the problem is in the GEDCOM privacy restriction and evidently PHPGEDView was ignoring it - probably because you can't navigate without it.

Basically, I'd like a page that shows that - when the person is private - if they have a private spouse show "private spouse" or show the actual spiouse name if not. Then for parents, use the same rule - if private show "private parent" or if public show the name. I don't need anything else - that gets the person going. This does not:

norsky.net/GedReed/individual.php?pid=I12&ged=Reed

Thanks for all the attention to this.
Tony
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #11

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thjelmstad wrote:
Thanks again. But been there, tried that.

Both suggestions on Restrictions were tried. The record remains a "private" record and no data is shown - it states "That person does not exist or you do not have access".

Tony

Hi Tony,

Did you clean the cache?

EDIT : or I do not understand what you want to do, or you did not correctly set the privacy restrictions. Sorry.
Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by Jackie.
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #12

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That was a good thought - but tried that and it didn't help. Cleaned the cache and tried a couple of different browsers too.

My wife and I both have the same setup - we're living and one of our parents is dead. We want to have one tree for each of us and set the default person to the dead parent. But then people who start at the default person completely miss the other "half" of the tree because there is no link and no way to find the first person up that tree unless they already know the name and can search. And for my wife's family, there are 60 people in the tree with the missing surname, so even if they know what te missing surnames is - we did put it in the title - they still can't find the next person up the tree. So not having a way to expose this is bad and defeats the purpose.

Tony
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #13

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Tony
I'm afraid it most likely that you did not follow Greg's instructions properly. I would suggest you try again.
Without setting the FACTS-EVENTS to private, simply set yourself (or your wife, or whomever you now wish to expose as the default person) to visible via the privacy settings and see if that alone accomplishes your desired results. It should, as it does on several other sites with which I'm familiar. Then, after that is working, you can begin to hide the events for that person, as Greg further advised.
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #14

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Thanks again. But been there, tried that.

I checked this using my own site before I posted - so I am pretty sure this approach works. I have also used it a number of times on other sites.

If the record remains private, then it is most likely that you did not correctly add a "1 RESN none" tag to the record....
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #15

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Kiwi wrote:
It is always sensible to make the default person for each tree a dead person, otherwise your publicly visible "Home page" will never work properly, as most of the information it shows will be marked "Private".
Not really my experience... Have a look at my site and please tell me what doesn't work properly. I have two trees: one for myself and one for my wife. One of the reasons I did it that way is to seperate the statistics. On both trees I1 is a living individual (myself or my partner) and both of us have a living parent.

So what I did is use the block with Favorites on the Home page and added all four grandparents, since those are public, plus a link to the other tree. You never know which of these four branches a visitor is interested in, he could have landed anywhere from Google.

Would that maybe work?
stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.9
Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by bertkoor.
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #16

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Bert

You have taken some trouble to choose which blocks appear on your Home page, which is good. Many don't.

However, try looking at any public chart on your site (not logged in) or add a charts block to the Home page and you will see what I mean:

stamboom.bertkoor.nl/fanchart.php?rootid=I1&ged=BertKoor

stamboom.bertkoor.nl/compact.php?rootid=I1&ged=BertKoor

The site as a whole is so much more interesting if those menu options actually show something interesting, IMHO.

Try the same charts son my site.
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #17

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Thanks everyone, it's pretty much solved.

ToyGuy nailed it - I didn't follow Greg's instructions perfectly. Add Jackie's reminder to clear the cache . . .

Details:

Greg Stated:
You could make your root individual public, by adding a "Restriction" of "Show to visitors".

You could then make each of the facts for this individual private, by adding a "Show to members" tag to them.

Your visitors will then see a page with no facts, and all the family links.

What I missed was - you can make a restriction on an individual without adding any tags. That shows the complete individual record. Greg continued with - then remove what you don't want them to see - and that works exactly as Greg said - after you clear the cache! By the time Jackie reminded me of that, I'd forgotten which things I had tried and not tried.

So here's what I ended up with:

Earl Eugene Reed Show to visitors
Earl Eugene Reed Address Show to members
Earl Eugene Reed Baptism Show to members
Earl Eugene Reed Birth Show to members
Earl Eugene Reed Census Show to members
Earl Eugene Reed # of child Show to members
Earl Eugene Reed Source Show to members
Earl Eugene Reed SS Number Show to members

And now it shows his name and his parents and his dead siblings but does not show birth date. However, I can't suppress some non-standard tags we've created - like military service tags and anecdotes.

But this works so much better.

Thanks everyone - help was great.
Tony
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #18

  • fisharebest
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However, I can't suppress some non-standard tags we've created - like military service tags and anecdotes

The list of facts that are available in the "privacy tab" is created from the list of facts on the "edit tab".

Add your custom tags here (and save), and you then be able to set privacy rules for them.

You can remove them from the edit-tab afterwards, if you don't want your users to enter them.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #19

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Now that's service.

I tried that, and was able to suppress "Degree". But "Anecdote" doesn't show. I tried adding it under the Custom window, but got an error on the privacy tab. I read the page wiki.webtrees.net/en/Custom_Tags and decided it's probably not worth it.

But that did get one out of the way :>)

Thanks,
Tony
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #20

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Use raw edit and add the RESN tag to the Anecdote tag manually. Not sure WHY you would use a custom tag when all they can do is case problems. You should be using the GEDCOM standard custom FACT or EVEN tags.

1 FACT
2 TYPE Anecdote
2 NOTE This would house the content of the actual anecdotal text.
2 DATE

This tag can include all
EVENT_DETAIL:=
n TYPE <EVENT_OR_FACT_CLASSIFICATION> {0:1} p.49
n DATE <DATE_VALUE> {0:1} p.47, 46
n <<PLACE_STRUCTURE>> {0:1} p.38
n <<ADDRESS_STRUCTURE>> {0:1} p.31
n AGNC <RESPONSIBLE_AGENCY> {0:1} p.60
n RELI <RELIGIOUS_AFFILIATION> {0:1} p.60
n CAUS <CAUSE_OF_EVENT> {0:1} p.43
n RESN <RESTRICTION_NOTICE> {0:1} p.60
n <<NOTE_STRUCTURE>> {0:M} p.37
n <<SOURCE_CITATION>> {0:M} p.39
n <<MULTIMEDIA_LINK>> {0:M} p.37, 26
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