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TOPIC: Dual Default Individuals

Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #21

  • fisharebest
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FYI, there are two ways to add privacy restrictions

1) Add them to the record. e.g. "1 RESN privacy" or "2 RESN privacy".

2) Create a "privacy rule" within webtrees.

Option (1) is more efficient and more portable (the privacy follows the data).
Option (2) is implemented for people who use webtrees for display only, and edit their data offline with a desktop application.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #22

  • thjelmstad
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Several of you asked about the custom tags. The ones in question - Military Start Service, Military end service, and Anecdote, are standard tags in Master Genealogist. But TMG really encourages custom tags also, and there are whole sets of custom tags that can be imported. Using custom tags makes reporting become more specific as the sentences built from the tag can also be customized.
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #23

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thjelmstad wrote:
Several of you asked about the custom tags. The ones in question - Military Start Service, Military end service, and Anecdote, are standard tags in Master Genealogist. But TMG really encourages custom tags also, and there are whole sets of custom tags that can be imported. Using custom tags makes reporting become more specific as the sentences built from the tag can also be customized.

BUT, as you have discovered, they make it extremely hard to transfer data between different software products, thus defeating the entire purpose of a standard GEDCOM model! It is my opinion that such customisations are more about "locking-in" their users than offering a real service. If the latter was important, then they would encourage solutions that employ the standard terms (custom FACT and EVENt). Both can be equally effective in providing reporting opportunities if used consistently.
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #24

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Thanks Nigel for saying this in constructive way, my first reply was self censored.

"Custom tags" that begin with an "_" are a very bad way to create a GEDCOM. Since GEDCOM provides FACT and EVENt their is no need for any reason to use "_" leading fact/event tags. TMG does a major disservice to your GEDCOM when they don't know how to create a GEDCOM.

Opps almost need a censor again!
Ken
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #25

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Just to go into a little more detail...

If you record "Military Start Service" in the correct form

1 FACT
2 TYPE Military Start Service
2 NOTE This would house the content of the actual text describing this fact.
2 DATE xx xxx xxxx

This is just as easy to report on as:
1 _MILIS (or whatever the TMG tag is)
2 NOTE This would house the content of the actual text describing this fact.
2 DATE xx xxx xxxx

It is also totally transferable between software.

If products like TMG really feel it necessary to use these custom tags (and I have no objection to them doing so), then their EXPORT routines should include a conversion from custom to standard, so that transferability is retained. Otherwise they are being disingenuous in claiming an ability to export to a GEDCOM file. What they are really doing is exporting a GEDCOM file that only their own software can successfully import! It wouldn't be that hard to do, which is why I am somewhat cynical about their true reasons for using these tags.
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Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by kiwi.
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #26

  • norwegian_sardines
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If TMG has two similar and related facts I'd do this:

1 FACT Start Service
2 TYPE Military
2 NOTE This would house the content of the actual text describing this fact.
2 DATE xx xxx xxxx

1 FACT End Service
2 TYPE Military
2 NOTE This would house the content of the actual text describing this fact.
2 DATE xx xxx xxxx
Ken
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #27

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Why two "facts" if it can be done with one?
1 EVEN Service
2 TYPE Military
2 DATE BET xx xxx xxxx AND xx xxx xxxx

And is being in the army a fact or an event? I'd vote for the latter, but webtrees makes no distinction whatsoever.
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Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by bertkoor.
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #28

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Bert,

This is an excelant example of not knowing what the intended fact really is indicating. If the two facts as I entered them are actually the exact same fact just the start and stop of that fact then YES you are correct enter it as one fact.

I used my two entry fact to show the O.P. that the his two "custom facts" could be tied together using similar major types with minor subtypes, since I did not know exactly what TMG was really intending the two tags to mean. But your point is very valid that if the O.P. made these two tags up and they actually represented the same FACT of military service period. To extend this then other facts can emerge for a TYPE of "military" and setting the subtype to "rank", "unit" or "battle fought".

I the case of "service" I like using FACT because a fact says that you had been in the military between x and x where an EVENt says you were inducted on THIS date and place.
Ken
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #29

  • thjelmstad
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So much of this discussion seems to be aimed a little in the wrong direction. The tags work - if you go to norsky.net/GedHjelmstad/individual.php?pid=I3&ged=WalzHjelmstad you will see two tags that are not on the privacy Default Tags list but pass through and everything works. Reports work, display works, everything's nice.

Note that I haven't had time to check the actual GEDCOM tags used, but that all these tags did transfer correctly. They just aren't listed in the Default Tag list so that they can be suppressed in the Privacy section.

I do now know that the "Anecdote" tag is coded as "NOTE" - found that out last night at the Colorado Genealogy Society Computer Interest Group meeting - and that is in the default list and I can suppress it. It displays with the name Anecdote name in both TMG and webtrees - this is good - and I use that as a "tag" in TMG and thought it was a tag until someone pointed out differently.

Both TMG and webtrees seem to work extremely well together. The only issue I had was how to suppress information about a living person who had to be the default individual to make the whole tree accessible.

I got wonderful help and the problem is solved - and the Tags work very much to my liking. Thanks to everyone for helping me do that.

Tony
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #30

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Tony
1) Help provided via the forum, while serving to attempt to solve your 'problem', is intended for all users and becomes part of a knowledge base of problems and solutions that future users and admins can refer to via search.

2) Maybe you missed the point. webtrees tries hard to accommodate many custom tags and makes no changes to the GEDCOM. This is why your tags, like MILS, are displayed, often without an error. However, just because TMG encourages them and webtrees happens to handle them effortlessly, that doesn't mean that the tag is proper in structure. The standard clearly allows the incorporation of data like military service via the EVEN and FACT tags and in doing so, all other genealogy programs should properly display the data recorded via these your use of these tags. This may not be the case with other programs and therefore it limits their transportability. Also, the developers of webtrees have attempted to create a software package that can replace all others, and not work "in conjunction with" other programs, like TMG. We are free, they are not. We don't use non-standard tags, they do. We create portable data, theirs may not be so flexible.

Hope this helps explain why you received extended discussions on the quality and veracity of your tags and the suggestions on how to more properly record the same information, within the boundaries of the GEDCOM standard. You will find that TMG will (should) also import these properly defined tags just the same as their custom tags.
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Dual Default Individuals 6 years 1 month ago #31

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They just aren't listed in the Default Tag list so that they can be suppressed in the Privacy section.

The list of tags that appears in the "privacy tab" is generated from the list of tags you have selected in the "edit tab".

Add the tags to the edit tab (temporarily) and you will be able to set privacy rules for them.

However, although there is a custom tag for degree (_DEG), there isn't one for "anecdote".

So, unless you have modified your site to create this tag, my guess is that this is coded as a custom fact. e.g.

1 FACT
2 TYPE Anecdote

If this is the case, you'll need to set a privacy rule for "FACT".

Or (and this is much more efficient), add a "2 RESN privacy" directly to each fact. These are standard GEDCOM tags, so TNG should hopefully be able to create them.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
Last Edit: 6 years 1 month ago by fisharebest.
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