TOPIC: Dead people

Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #1

  • macalter
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I followed the thread about 1 DEAD and this post doesn't want to expand on that. Question may seem rhetorical but I don't want to use it (below feature) incorrectly:

The previous discussion said webtrees has a formula for calculating the probability of a person being dead. In the List Individual > Dead -- feature I've not used before -- where there is no date or "Yes", I'm assuming webtrees has done calculation that this person is dead and I should search for a date/evidence. (Aside from records that death is obvious and the "Yes" wasn't checked.)

Is there a view that may show records that helped determine the death so I have a starting point?
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #2

  • ToyGuy
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Having read the previous threads, did you not notice Nigel's offering of his SIMPL addon which provides important information about the IS DEAD calculation?

kiwitrees.net/simpl-add-ons/?did=16
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #3

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ToyGuy wrote:
Having read the previous threads, did you not notice Nigel's offering of his SIMPL addon which provides important information about the IS DEAD calculation?

kiwitrees.net/simpl-add-ons/?did=16

kiwi's add-on relates to privacy concerns. Mine strictly relates to another option for finding dead people that I've missed.
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #4

  • kiwi
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macalter wrote:
kiwi's add-on relates to privacy concerns. Mine strictly relates to another option for finding dead people that I've missed.

Not so. That add-on relates simply to webtrees understanding of the status of a person's life - indicating whether they are dead or alive. If dead, it adds a brief explanation for why webtrees thinks they are dead. The fact that webtrees uses the same logic to determine whether a person's data can be displayed or not is coincidental.

So, back to your question:
The previous discussion said webtrees has a formula for calculating the probability of a person being dead. In the List Individual > Dead -- feature I've not used before -- where there is no date or "Yes", I'm assuming webtrees has done calculation that this person is dead and I should search for a date/evidence. (Aside from records that death is obvious and the "Yes" wasn't checked.)

Well, the problem seems to start with your view of "the List Individual > Dead -- feature" and the assumption you have made. Normally, in my experience, clicking on this filter does not result in ANY individual appearing unless they have a date of death or 'yes'. webtrees displays 'yes' generally if it calculates the person as being dead. If you are saying that you DO have such individuals displayed after applying the 'Dead" filter to a list, then we need to understand what you are doing that causes that. There are many different settings to consider, but as a first step can you give us:

a) a small part of the display showing these people with a blank in the death date; and
b) the GEDCOM data for one of those individuals; and
c) the age you have set as the "Age at which to assume a person is dead"; and
d)what setting you have for "Estimated dates for birth and death" (hide or show).
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #5

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Nigel
Well, the problem seems to start with your view of "the List Individual > Dead -- feature" and the assumption you have made. Normally, in my experience, clicking on this filter does not result in ANY individual appearing unless they have a date of death or 'yes'. webtrees displays 'yes' generally if it calculates the person as being dead. If you are saying that you DO have such individuals displayed after applying the 'Dead" filter to a list, then we need to understand what you are doing that causes that. There are many different settings to consider, but as a first step can you give us:


Okay, I've misunderstood using the view. As I've said, not used it before and thought people that were "calculated" as Dead would be listed if I didn't do so. Poor guess on my part.

I'll take a look at your add-on.
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #6

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macalter wrote:
...thought people that were "calculated" as Dead would be listed if I didn't do so. Poor guess on my part

Yes, people that you have not marked in any way as dead, but who webtrees calculates as dead ARE displayed in that list. They are marked with "yes" in the death date column. The same "yes" indicator is shown for people you have added Y to, as in terms of a display they both mean the same thing - the person is dead, but you don't know when.

The only benefit / difference you get by adding the Y is faster privacy calculations, because it saves webtrees the considerable task of estimating "is dead" on every display.
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #7

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kiwi wrote:
macalter wrote:
...thought people that were "calculated" as Dead would be listed if I didn't do so. Poor guess on my part

Yes, people that you have not marked in any way as dead, but who webtrees calculates as dead ARE displayed in that list. They are marked with "yes" in the death date column. The same "yes" indicator is shown for people you have added Y to, as in terms of a display they both mean the same thing - the person is dead, but you don't know when.

The only benefit / difference you get by adding the Y is faster privacy calculations, because it saves webtrees the considerable task of estimating "is dead" on every display.


That's one of the other factors for my wanting "YES" added where I've missed -- loading time. Will use your add-on and get people marked. Which in term lets me know that I should be looking for confirmation details where possible. That's my primary goal over the issue of privacy as my site in private.

Thanks
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #8

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You don't need any extra tools to identify or mark people as dead with Y. Just use Batch update. I recommend using it once every month, as (of course) new people are reaching the 120 yr old point every day. At the same time, before accepting the batch update option to add the Y, I do a little online research to see ifi can find a 'real, date, which is the ultimate goal.
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #9

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kiwi wrote:
You don't need any extra tools to identify or mark people as dead with Y. Just use Batch update. I recommend using it once every month, as (of course) new people are reaching the 120 yr old point every day. At the same time, before accepting the batch update option to add the Y, I do a little online research to see ifi can find a 'real, date, which is the ultimate goal.


I can't use Batch Update. It dies on me, always did.
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #10

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Have you tried it for updating the death "Y"? That shouldn't cause you any problems.
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #11

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kiwi wrote:
Have you tried it for updating the death "Y"? That shouldn't cause you any problems.

As expected, got a few done then an ISE error and all died.
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #12

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Were you trying to do them at all one go ("Update all") or just one at a time ("Update")?
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #13

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kiwi wrote:
Were you trying to do them at all one go ("Update all") or just one at a time ("Update")?

One at a time as I noted each record to let me go back and review.

Two marked are questionable as they have DOBs 1920, 1921 respectively, entered on the record so I removed the DEAT. Another I was able to find death/burial info once the DEAT was added.
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #14

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Sounds like you have "Age at which to assume a person is dead" set too low in that case. As they are only about 92 yrs old, I guess you have it set to 90?

EDIT: ... Or someone in their family may have an incorrect or 'unusual' date attached. This where my simpl_privacy app will help, by telling you precisely why webtrees regards these two as dead.
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #15

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kiwi wrote:
Sounds like you have "Age at which to assume a person is dead" set too low in that case. As they are only about 92 yrs old, I guess you have it set to 90?

EDIT: ... Or someone in their family may have an incorrect or 'unusual' date attached. This where my simpl_privacy app will help, by telling you precisely why webtrees regards these two as dead.

I had DOD at 96, changed back to 120 and am running again.

============ASIDE:
Removing the Y and looking at the simpl_privacy app, it shows both as living. Father birth is 1875 which maybe the reason. But she married in 1943 at age 21 so it's reasonable.

The other father was born 1871 and had 8 kids starting in 1899.

My call is to let the be alive but it's helpful to see there's reason to question.
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #16

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I restarted Mac after changing to 120 est death age.
Ran Batch Update again. Got 2 done and Internal Server Error, as I expected.
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #17

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For goodness sake get your server fixed. You are wasting your time and ours on problems that need not exist. I don't know if the problem is capacity or time, but both should be trivial for your host to fix and really should not cost anything.
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Dead people 5 years 11 months ago #18

  • ToyGuy
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Mac- I thought you had resolved the memory and timeout problems. Like Nigel suggests, what a waste of your time and our talents.
You can export your tree, import it into your installation on my site and run the batch program, then import to be updated.
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