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Question Sequencing of children in charts

  • schembs
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10 years 5 months ago #1 by schembs
Sequencing of children in charts was created by schembs
In the database the children are in order by year of birth. Yet in the Interactive Tree the children appear to be in random order:




Is there a configuration issue that I have not found? Or is there no way to control the sequencing.

Thanks,

jim
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10 years 5 months ago - 10 years 5 months ago #2 by Jackie
Replied by Jackie on topic Sequencing of children in charts
Hi,

On Families tab, you have an option "Re-order children".

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Last edit: 10 years 5 months ago by Jackie.

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  • nigelo
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10 years 5 months ago #3 by nigelo
Replied by nigelo on topic Sequencing of children in charts

Jackie wrote: Hi,

On Families tab, you have an option "Re-order children".


Jackie - not sure this has any effect on the Interactive Chart.

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10 years 5 months ago - 10 years 5 months ago #4 by Jackie
Replied by Jackie on topic Sequencing of children in charts

nigelo wrote:

Jackie wrote: Hi,

On Families tab, you have an option "Re-order children".


Jackie - not sure this has any effect on the Interactive Chart.


Hi Nigel,

schembs said "Interactive tree". If I mix children of a family and then display the interactive tree, it will show children in the way I ordered them. If I re-order them by date of birth, the interactive tree displays them in the correct order.

Isn't it what you get?
Last edit: 10 years 5 months ago by Jackie.

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  • nigelo
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10 years 5 months ago #5 by nigelo
Replied by nigelo on topic Sequencing of children in charts

Jackie wrote: Isn't it what you get?


Don't know. I didn't check because I don't use it. Just made an assumption based on the general quality of that particular chart's code.

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  • schembs
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10 years 4 months ago #6 by schembs
Replied by schembs on topic Sequencing of children in charts
Thanks, except that I import a GEDCOM file. I don't think I ever see the configuration options you indicate. In the gedcom file the children are ordered. When I call a report, e.g. Interactive Tree, the children appear in somewhat random order as shown in my screenshot above. jds

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  • nigelo
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10 years 4 months ago #7 by nigelo
Replied by nigelo on topic Sequencing of children in charts

schembs wrote: Thanks, except that I import a GEDCOM file.


In that case the problem lies in the software you use to generate the GEDCOM file. It clearly doesn't sort children into a date-based sequence. webtrees does.

You either need to fix that in your software, or stop using it (in my opinion the best solution by a VERY big margin) and do everything in webtrees.

Before you suggest it, I know webtrees "could" dynamically sort children into the correct order on every chart, list, page etc. But it would be ridiculously inefficient and slow. It "should" be done just once when the data is created. I would expect any good software to do this.

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  • norwegian_sardines
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10 years 4 months ago #8 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic Sequencing of children in charts
Nigel,

It has been a while since I loaded a GEDCOM, but if the GEDCOM standard of: "The preferred order of the CHILdren pointers within a FAMily structure is chronological by birth." is not followed then issues could arise.

This being said, many of the programs do not create the GEDCOM with correct GEDCOM tag order either, so we are left in a quandary, do we honor the GEDCOM order or the date order of the tags, can webtrees do both where appropriate?

I'm happy with date order because I'm not importing right now, and most of my individuals have birth dates of some kind, but what about those families where the only order we have is based on a picture the perceived (and relative age) of various individuals. Child 1 looks older than child 2 etc. etc.? Or we know that Child 1 was born at a specific date but the others were born some time after. No dates are available yet but order can be assumed with some assurance.

Some form of audit report should be created and run before a load is done to expose these issues and allow time for correction before an order is assumed by date.

Just my Opion

Ken

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  • schembs
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10 years 4 months ago #9 by schembs
Replied by schembs on topic Sequencing of children in charts
I use Family Tree Maker (from Ancestry). I click on the "sort children by birthdate" when I enter them and it does order them correctly. I print out reports from Ancestry and they are in birth year sequence.

In the webtrees application they are in a completely different order in the Family Navigator panel on the right of the Interactive Tree and then in the tree itself in the same incorrect sequence as they are shown in the Navigator panel. I just tried a Descendant chart and they are handled the same way as the Interactive tree.

jds

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  • nigelo
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10 years 4 months ago - 10 years 4 months ago #10 by nigelo
Replied by nigelo on topic Sequencing of children in charts

schembs wrote: I use Family Tree Maker (from Ancestry). I click on the "sort children by birthdate" when I enter them and it does order them correctly. I print out reports from Ancestry and they are in birth year sequence.

In the webtrees application they are in a completely different order in the Family Navigator panel on the right of the Interactive Tree and then in the tree itself in the same incorrect sequence as they are shown in the Navigator panel. I just tried a Descendant chart and they are handled the same way as the Interactive tree.

jds


Ancestry probably stores the sort order in the database and then doesn't sort them properly on export to GEDCOM file. So when you import the GEDCOM into webtrees they are not in order. Check the raw GEDCOM data for that family record (Fxxx) in the GEDCOM file and compare its order to the corrected date order. If I am right, then your only solution is to either ignore it, or amend the order in webtrees every time you import the GEDCOM file. OR stop using Ancestry. As mentioned somewhere else here recently, it is among the worst "GEDCOM mess" culprits around.

EDIT - if you look at any webtrees site (that does NOT import regular GEDCOM files from FTM) you will see that the sort order is consistent EVERYWHERE. There is no problem.
Last edit: 10 years 4 months ago by nigelo.

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  • ToyGuy
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10 years 4 months ago #11 by ToyGuy
Replied by ToyGuy on topic Sequencing of children in charts
SOunds to me like FTM/Ancestry is not physically (mechanically) reordering the children within the GEDCOM text, but rather using some hack or hook.
webtrees uses a correct device to let you move them into the proper position. You DO have that device available on the FAMily record page. If the children were entered out of order and later it was discovered a proper order, you should reorder those people. Jackie has provided the mechanism.

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  • nigelo
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10 years 4 months ago - 10 years 4 months ago #12 by nigelo
Replied by nigelo on topic Sequencing of children in charts

ToyGuy wrote: You DO have that device available on the FAMily record page.


Stephen, as Jim only imports GEDCOM files (using webtrees just for display :-( ) he probably has editing turned off. Therefore sees no options. There would be no point turning it on, as all changes would be destroyed at the next import.
Last edit: 10 years 4 months ago by nigelo.

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  • schembs
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10 years 4 months ago #13 by schembs
Replied by schembs on topic Sequencing of children in charts
I do have Editing turned off. And the sequencing problem is not just this Family as you would assume. So correcting it once imported is out of the question. I guess I will live with it. This will be one more reason I will consider switching to webtrees for creating/editing the trees in the future.

Thanks for all your thoughts.

jds

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  • nigelo
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10 years 4 months ago #14 by nigelo
Replied by nigelo on topic Sequencing of children in charts

schembs wrote: I do have Editing turned off. And the sequencing problem is not just this Family as you would assume. So correcting it once imported is out of the question. I guess I will live with it. This will be one more reason I will consider switching to webtrees for creating/editing the trees in the future.


:-)

While we have your attention turned towards switching permanently....

Another reason is the huge overhead you are condemning your website to. If webtrees was written just to be a display tool, we could probably reduce the overall package size (files and database) by about 90%, saving you an enormous amount of web space and generally speeding up your whole site (page load times). So why have it and probably pay for it, when you are not using it? What you are doing is "using a sledge hammer to crack a nut".

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