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TOPIC: raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags

raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 5 years 7 months ago #1

  • macalter
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I have a particular order that I want to see my Source tags in. In v1.4x, this was respected but I notice in 1.5x, the order is not. I know the raw display has changed to group items but is there something that also gives order "instructions"? The same has been seen in Media where the Source attached to the Media Object displays before the File Name, making it harder to tell the name.

version 1.4.4 raw GEDCOM & GUI display (same as raw)
1 TITL
1 AUTH
1 PUBL
1 CALN
2 DATE
1 FORM
1 VERS
1 TEXT
1 REPO @R2@
1 REPO @R1@

Title
Author
Publication
Call number
<Date>21 September 1976
Format
Version
Text
Repository
Repository
Last change
Media object


version 1.5 raw GEDCOM
1 TITL
1 PUBL
1 CALN
2 DATE
1 REPO @R1@
1 TEXT
1 AUTH
1 CHAN
2 DATE 13 NOV 2013
3 TIME 13:04:23
2 _WT_USER admin
1 OBJE @M9@
1 VERS
1 FORM

however, displays as different order than raw
Title
Author
Publication
Text
Media object
Last change
Version
Format
Repository
Call number
<Date>
Repository
---
macalter
webtrees 1.7.1 (demo site)
PHP Version: 5.6x (Fast CGI)
mySQL server: 5.1.56
MacOS X: 10.7.5 (Lion)
Browsers: Safari 6.1.6 (mac), Firefox 38.0 (mac)
[updated: 13 Jul 2015]
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 5 years 7 months ago #2

  • fisharebest
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Which order would you prefer?
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 5 years 7 months ago #3

  • macalter
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The order I create in raw GEDCOM as I enter them from my "templates" (text files) to be in certain order.
---
macalter
webtrees 1.7.1 (demo site)
PHP Version: 5.6x (Fast CGI)
mySQL server: 5.1.56
MacOS X: 10.7.5 (Lion)
Browsers: Safari 6.1.6 (mac), Firefox 38.0 (mac)
[updated: 13 Jul 2015]
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 5 years 7 months ago #4

  • fisharebest
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That may work for you, but since the raw data can be in any random/arbitrary order, we need to sort them so that the titles are at the top, etc.

Otherwise we force everyone else to use raw-gedcom edititng.

The current order is:

TITL
ABBR
AUTH
DATA
PUBL
TEXT
NOTE
OBJE
REFN
RIN
_UID
CHAN

What order would you prefer?
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 5 years 7 months ago #5

  • WGroleau
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Since raw edit is now a fact at a time instead of a whole record, why would the order matter any more? Other than a “logical” order which might put CHAN & _UID at the end. TITL & RIN at the beginning. The rest might as well be spec order, or bibliographical citing order. Are there any programs reading GEDCOM that are order dependent?
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UniGen.us/
PHP 7.2.15; MySQL 5.6.40; Apache
Last Edit: 5 years 7 months ago by WGroleau.
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 5 years 7 months ago #6

  • macalter
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WGroleau wrote:
Since raw edit is now a fact at a time instead of a whole record, why would the order matter any more? Other than a “logical” order which might put CHAN & _UID at the end. TITL & RIN at the beginning. The rest might as well be spec order, or bibliographical citing order. Are there any programs reading GEDCOM that are order dependent?

Appearance matters to me. Also, I find when the order was how I set it, I could then tell if I was missing data. I'm not saying to force anyone to use raw GEDCOM, I use it because the GUI doesn't offer all the fields on entry and it takes too much time to add one-by-one. So, I keep text files as "templates" and copy them into raw then populate.
---
macalter
webtrees 1.7.1 (demo site)
PHP Version: 5.6x (Fast CGI)
mySQL server: 5.1.56
MacOS X: 10.7.5 (Lion)
Browsers: Safari 6.1.6 (mac), Firefox 38.0 (mac)
[updated: 13 Jul 2015]
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 5 years 7 months ago #7

  • bertkoor
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macalter wrote:
the GUI doesn't offer all the fields on entry

As I found out recently, you can add extra level 2 tags by modifying the file includes/config_data.php. Just put the Level1 tags in the array where you think they are appropriate.
stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.9
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 5 years 7 months ago #8

  • fisharebest
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the GUI doesn't offer all the fields on entry

You are using "1 CALN" in a source record. This is the wrong way to use this tag. It should be subordinate to a "1 REPO" tag, and indicates where to find the source, within the repository.

You are using "1 VERS" in a source record. This tag is part of the header, and indicates the version number of an application or data format.

You are using "1 FORM" in a source record. This tag is part of the media-object record, and indicates the media format.

webtrees is very tolerant of invalid/incorrect GEDCOM data and can display most tags in mosts contexts - but this data will almost certainly be lost if you transfer to another application.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 5 years 7 months ago #9

  • WGroleau
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Appearance matters to me.
And to me. That’s why I prefer the by-date order that has been standard for some time; has it changed? A logical exception is to keep UiD and CHAN on the bottom if shown at all. And when dates are not present, obviously marriage is not before birth and not after death.

I also edit raw a lot, not to paste in templates, but because it is more efficient (for me) than tabbing between fields. So it has always irritated me that the GEDCOM is generated out of order. But again, that’s just me, and if I go to 1.5, I won’t be able to see it to get irritated anymore. :-)
--
Wes Groleau
UniGen.us/
PHP 7.2.15; MySQL 5.6.40; Apache
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 5 years 7 months ago #10

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That’s why I prefer the by-date order that has been standard for some time; has it changed?

Wes, Mac is talking about the "facts" in a source record - not in an individual record.
But again, that’s just me, and if I go to 1.5, I won’t be able to see it to get irritated anymore. :-)

But if you do want to re-order the data in a gedcom record, the editor in 1.5 makes it super-easy. Just drag-and-drop.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 4 years 8 months ago #11

  • Andreas
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Hello,

long time I didn't see the need to modify one of my sources. Yesterday I tried and I was surprised. Did I miss an evolution in webtrees?

WGroleau wrote:
Since raw edit is now a fact at a time instead of a whole record,...

It really seems that GUI editing of sources is not possible, because it shows only the TITL tag.

Using the raw GEDCOM edit all the other fields are available.
I tried with other sources. Same result.

Is there somewhere a switch turning of the possibility to modify SOURCES?
Or do I have the tags in a false order?
What should I do?

PS: May it be the same problem as described and solved in V 1.5 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/webtrees/+bug/1198418) ?
always searching for members of the MAUPILLÉ and RAUHUT family using a common webtrees installation.
Last Edit: 4 years 8 months ago by Andreas. Reason: added link to fixed bug
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 4 years 8 months ago #12

  • fisharebest
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It is no longer possible to edit "all the source details" in a single edit form. You must edit them separately.

This is the same as other records (e.g. individuals and families). You must edit the facts (Birth, Death, Marraige) separately. You cannot edit them all together in one form.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 4 years 8 months ago #13

  • Andreas
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Thank you for this information.

In fact I recogniced this behavior for individuals, families an medias and never found it worrying.

Yes, I understand the reason for that. Every thing is treated in the same way with the same modules.
always searching for members of the MAUPILLÉ and RAUHUT family using a common webtrees installation.
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 4 years 8 months ago #14

  • bertkoor
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fisharebest wrote:
You must edit the facts (Birth, Death, Marraige) separately. You cannot edit them all together in one form.

That's really too bad...
stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.9
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 4 years 8 months ago #15

  • Andreas
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bertkoor wrote:
fisharebest wrote:
You must edit the facts (Birth, Death, Marraige) separately. You cannot edit them all together in one form.

That's really too bad...

Yes in fact. I have to correct my recent topic.
Medias can be edited in a very fine manner. Why doesn't this work in the same way for sources, too?
always searching for members of the MAUPILLÉ and RAUHUT family using a common webtrees installation.
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raw GEDCOM order vs GUI display for Source tags 4 years 8 months ago #16

  • fisharebest
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Medias can be edited in a very fine manner

The editor simply searches for certain fields, and creates an edit form for them. It does not understand the structure of the data.

It is the cause of many problems, including

bugs.launchpad.net/webtrees/+bug/1234161 - Unexpected "2 DATE" in media record lost during edit
bugs.launchpad.net/webtrees/+bug/1101935 - Multiple files in Media object not supported
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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