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TOPIC: Complicated date range

Complicated date range 1 week 3 days ago #1

  • SchoutenCC
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Hi! I was wondering if there is a way to nest the operators of a date range. For me, it comes back as invalid date.

What I want to do is record someone’s residence. Start date is known (birth date), but end date lies between two dates (specific date unknown).

Intuitively, I wrote:
FROM 10 FEB 1850 TO BET 17 OCT 1856 AND 24 MAY 1857
But, alas, this is invalid.

Adding parentheses around the BET/AND section did not help either.

In an ideal world, I’d expect a FROM/TO date range to accept two arguments that can each be a complete date object (i.e. possibly also a BET/AND range or different calendars etc.). Is there a way to achieve this?

Thanks,
Chris
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Complicated date range 1 week 2 days ago #2

  • norwegian_sardines
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The GEDCOM standard would suggest a date period.

FROM DATE1 TO DATE2

Which means the event occurred from DATE1 to DATE2.

Dates do not have to be complete for example just a year or a year and month.

So your first thoughts for a date range should be:
FROM 10 FEB 1850 TO 1857

One can interpreted GEDCOM a little loose on what a Date_Approximate is so this will also not pull an error in webtrees:

FROM 10 FEB 1850 TO ABT 24 MAY 1857
Ken
Last Edit: 1 week 2 days ago by norwegian_sardines.
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Complicated date range 1 week 2 days ago #3

  • bertkoor
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With residences you have multiple. You don't need to squeeze all info into all events. It's OK when the reader has to do some thinking as well.

You often have evidence for single points in time only. I regularly note it like this:

Residence: Rotterdam
Date: from Aug 1930

Residence: Amsterdam
Date: from Jan 1936

The follow-up of the second residence in Amsterdam means the first probably ended in 1936 also. But if you do not have evidence, rather don't note it.

Stick to provable facts supported by evidence, and you do not need speculative date ranges.
stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.9
Last Edit: 1 week 2 days ago by bertkoor.
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Complicated date range 1 week 2 days ago #4

  • bertkoor
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bertkoor wrote:
Stick to provable facts supported by evidence, and you do not need speculative date ranges.

In this case:
FROM 10 FEB 1850 TO BET 17 OCT 1856 AND 24 MAY 1857

It looks like you have evidence, i.e. a source stating the residence being the same at 17 OCT 1856, and a source stating a different residence at 24 MAY 1857.
You can record that as:
Residence One
Date: FROM 10 FEB 1850 TO 17 OCT 1856

Residence Two
Date: FROM 24 MAY 1857

Because the truth is you don't know what the residence was between OCT 1856 and MAY 1857.
stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.9
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Complicated date range 1 week 1 day ago #5

  • kiwi
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norwegian_sardines wrote:
One can interpret GEDCOM a little loose on what a Date_Approximate is so this will also not pull an error in webtrees:

FROM 10 FEB 1850 TO ABT 24 MAY 1857

I suppose you "could" interpret the standard in that way, but I think that is a bit of a stretch. I don't see the compound use of FROM/TO plus ABT, or similar suggested as valid anywhere in the specification.

Also, you are correct that the code does not signal an actual error if you enter "FROM 10 FEB 1850 TO ABT 24 MAY 1857", but it does completely ignore the "ABT" part when displayed. The displayed value (in English at least) of that entry is "From 10 February 1850 to 24 May 1857. The code is written to present each form of date approximation as a completely isolated case, with only one such format ever existing in a single date field.
Nigel

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Complicated date range 1 week 1 day ago #6

  • norwegian_sardines
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Nigel,

Specifically I agree with you that the standard does not say this construct is valid nor would I use it. But the standard does allow for DATE_PHRASE which should allow any thing that does not match the exact values allowed for “date”.

DATE_PHRASE in GEDCOM makes date checking in the entry field a little quirky and I’m thinking that it does not work completely in webtrees. But that is something that you would know a little more about since you probably looked at that code, I know I have not.

Ken
Ken
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Complicated date range 1 week 47 minutes ago #7

  • SchoutenCC
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Thanks for all your input guys. I guess I agree with Bert that I’m best off stating:

Residence 1: FROM 10 FEB 1850 TO AFT 17 OCT 1856 (allowing for a somewhat loose(?) interpretation - not displayed - as discussed above)
Residence 2: FROM BEF 24 MAY 1857 TO 24 DEC 1863

Leaving the period between these two RESI’s unspecified (since it could possibly be that there was an ‘intermediate’, different, address).
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Complicated date range 1 week 44 minutes ago #8

  • SchoutenCC
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This unspecified-ness I suppose being in line with other inconsistencies. For instance, when he went to boarding school at age 13, he was removed from the family card dated 24 DEC 1863, but he was already added to the school’s registry dated OCT 1863 — meaning he legally lived in two places simultaneously for two months.
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Complicated date range 6 days 15 hours ago #9

  • norwegian_sardines
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You have outlined one of the issues with census information and other gathered residence info. Many times I've found that people want their family members counted or schools or other places of residence to count occupants so some times a person gets counted twice. My wife's grandmother was counted twice in one census because she was a live in house keeper that was also counted at her parents home because they also kept a room for her.
Ken
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