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TOPIC: [SOLVED] Correct age of individual without exact death date

Correct age of individual without exact death date 3 weeks 4 days ago #1

  • trejder
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I've got and individual who:

- was born est. 1860,
- died between 1950 and 1965 (according to two different sources).

And that's how he was saved to the tree:

1 BIRT
2 DATE EST 1860
2 SOUR @S28@
1 DEAT
2 DATE BET 1950 AND 1965
2 SOUR @S28@
2 SOUR @S32@

On an individual page first date is taken into consideration and this person is mentioned as being 90 years old:



On home page, in summary box, the second date is taken into consideration and the very same individual is presented as being 105 years old and being the oldest person in the tree:



Is this a correct and expected behaviour (and why, if yes)? Or is it a bug?

How old was my great-great-uncle in fact? :>
Last Edit: 3 weeks 4 days ago by trejder.
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Correct age of individual without exact death date 3 weeks 4 days ago #2

  • fisharebest
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This is certainly the expected behaviour.

Two different bits of code use different logic.

For the "lifespan", we have a date-range and we need a single year. We take the first one.

For the statistics, we just use the database indexes (for performance), which were just designed to help find data, and which don't know the difference between

1 DEAT
2 DATE BET 1950 AND 1965

and

1 DEAT
2 DATE 1950
1 DEAT
2 DATE 1965

We simply search for the greatest difference betwee a birth date and a deat date.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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Correct age of individual without exact death date 3 weeks 3 days ago #3

  • trejder
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That is a pretty explanatory from logic / code perspective. But what about business / user perspective.

Look at the second screenshot (stats from home page). Isn't a bit weird that the same entry says "105" in second column and "Age 90 years" in third one?

I have a lot of people in my family confused when they're seeing entry like above.

Great that we use two different logic. Great that we care for performance. But what about usability and the clearness of meaning?
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Correct age of individual without exact death date 3 weeks 3 days ago #4

  • thomas52
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A person can be in the army "BET 1950-1965" or be a farmer "BET 1950-1965," but they cannot spend 15 years dying. Pick a date (a day, or a month, or a year) and call it EST or ABT and add a note detailing the circumstances. Your method screws up the software logic.
"Failure is an amazing teacher." (L'échec est un professeur extraordinaire.)
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Correct age of individual without exact death date 3 weeks 3 days ago #5

  • fisharebest
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When you have conflicting sources, the GEDCOM specification tells you to add two copies of the event - one for each source.

1 DEAT
2 DATE 1965
2 SOUR @source2@
1 DEAT
2 DATE 1950
2 SOUR @source1@

This makes it clear that the death occured on one of the two dates - not at some point between the two.

You should put your "preferred" one first - and webtrees allows you to re-order the events to do this. (Edit raw GEDCOM, then drag/drop the facts).
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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Correct age of individual without exact death date 3 weeks 3 days ago #6

  • trejder
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thomas52 wrote:
A person can be in the army "BET 1950-1965" or be a farmer "BET 1950-1965," but they cannot spend 15 years dying. Pick a date (a day, or a month, or a year) and call it EST or ABT and add a note detailing the circumstances. Your method screws up the software logic.

I think, I am missing your point. Of course that a person cannot "spend 15 years dying", but certainly can "die somewhere between these dates".

Say you have a person that says: "Your uncle went to the war in 1939 and never returned. No other information about him, his date or place of dead was ever established and no document exists".

How do you denote that?

I write "DEAT BET 1939 AND 1945" because Second World War lasted six months and add that person as a source ("Grandmother's memories").

Got any other idea?
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Correct age of individual without exact death date 3 weeks 3 days ago #7

  • trejder
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fisharebest wrote:
When you have conflicting sources, the GEDCOM specification tells you to add two copies of the event - one for each source.

And what, if you have a single source that is uncertain about dates? See my previous post.

My mother is too old to remember anything in details, especially for an individuals far from core tree. She said to me: "Your great-great-uncle died between 1950 and 1965. That's all that I am certain about".

How to denote that?
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Correct age of individual without exact death date 3 weeks 3 days ago #8

  • fisharebest
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> She said to me: "Your great-great-uncle died between 1950 and 1965. That's all that I am certain about".

Your first post said "died between 1950 and 1965 (according to two different sources)."

I presumed this to mean one source for 1950 and one source for 1965 - but I see now you meant that you had two sources, both of which said "between 1950 and 1965".

In this case "BET 1950 and 1965" would be correct.
Greg Roach - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. - fisharebest.webtrees.net
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Correct age of individual without exact death date 3 weeks 3 days ago #9

  • thomas52
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I too have several instances where I know an individual died after one date, but before another date. My solution has been simply died "BEF 1965." (I'm not totally convinced this is the best solution.)
"Failure is an amazing teacher." (L'échec est un professeur extraordinaire.)
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[SOLVED] Correct age of individual without exact death date 3 weeks 3 days ago #10

  • trejder
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Problem solved.
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