Question GEDCOM 7 - personal name structure
- janinuk
- Visitor
10 months 1 week ago - 10 months 1 week ago #41
by janinuk
Replied by janinuk on topic GEDCOM 7 - personal name structure
I'm not sure that anybody is still interested in further comments on this topic, but here are some thoughts of mine.
The Dutch roepnaam/bijnaam thing is by no means culture specific. Take English Michael or David - two of the most common male first names. I might know somebody as Dave Smith, but his "real" name might be David Smith, plus he probably has a middle name too. And Mike Fisher's "real" name might be Michael Fisher. In common English usage, Mike and Dave are nicknames (Dutch "roepnaam", although not an exact equivalent).
The confusion arises when Mike or Dave happens to have another sobriquet or epithet of some sort, perhaps based on some physical attribute (like "Goliath" for a tall person). In Dutch (my native language) you would call this a "bijnaam". What would you call it in English? Again, it's a "nickname".
I've checked 2 Dutch-English dictionaries. One translates both roepnaam and bijnaam as nickname. The other one translates bijnaam as nickname, and gives a short explanatory note (but no translation) for roepnaam.
Look at France, Germany and many other countries and you'll find the same thing. What's needed is one tag for the "Dave" type of nickname, and another one for the "Goliath" type.
The Dutch roepnaam/bijnaam thing is by no means culture specific. Take English Michael or David - two of the most common male first names. I might know somebody as Dave Smith, but his "real" name might be David Smith, plus he probably has a middle name too. And Mike Fisher's "real" name might be Michael Fisher. In common English usage, Mike and Dave are nicknames (Dutch "roepnaam", although not an exact equivalent).
The confusion arises when Mike or Dave happens to have another sobriquet or epithet of some sort, perhaps based on some physical attribute (like "Goliath" for a tall person). In Dutch (my native language) you would call this a "bijnaam". What would you call it in English? Again, it's a "nickname".
I've checked 2 Dutch-English dictionaries. One translates both roepnaam and bijnaam as nickname. The other one translates bijnaam as nickname, and gives a short explanatory note (but no translation) for roepnaam.
Look at France, Germany and many other countries and you'll find the same thing. What's needed is one tag for the "Dave" type of nickname, and another one for the "Goliath" type.
Last edit: 10 months 1 week ago by janinuk.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- fisharebest
- Topic Author
- Offline
- Administrator
Less
More
10 months 1 week ago #42
by fisharebest
Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net
Replied by fisharebest on topic GEDCOM 7 - personal name structure
In English, I would say that David => Dave is a "diminutive name". There are many non-obvious ones. e.g. Margaret => Peggy
A nickname would be more like Jack 'The Hat' McVitie.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_McVitie
A nickname would be more like Jack 'The Hat' McVitie.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_McVitie
Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- miqrogroove
- Offline
- New Member
Less
More
- Posts: 94
4 months 4 weeks ago - 4 months 4 weeks ago #43
by miqrogroove
Replied by miqrogroove on topic GEDCOM 7 - personal name structure
One of the challenges in French-Canadian naming conventions are the gendered surname "dit names" where we have multiple surnames. The verb "dire" is supposed to agree with the individual's gender, but we want to index the masculine form only. Then I end up using structures like this...
In webtrees, this allows the surname to display with "dite" and index with "dit".
Code:
1 NAME Marie Malvina /Antil/
2 TYPE BIRTH
2 GIVN Marie Malvina
2 SURN Antil
1 NAME Malvina /Anctil dite St Jean/
2 TYPE AKA
2 GIVN Malvina
2 SURN Anctil dit St Jean
In webtrees, this allows the surname to display with "dite" and index with "dit".
Last edit: 4 months 4 weeks ago by miqrogroove.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- TheDutchJewel
- Offline
- Junior Member
4 months 4 weeks ago - 4 months 3 weeks ago #44
by TheDutchJewel
• webtrees 2.0.19 (later 2.0.x versions have a different markdown implementation)
+ XAMPP 8.2.12 with PHP 7.4.33 + Rural theme + Vesta Classic L&F & Ext. Relationships + other modules
• latest webtrees 2.1.x (only for testing and presentation) + PHP 8.2.x
Replied by TheDutchJewel on topic GEDCOM 7 - personal name structure
I use the NICK tag for the call name (roepnaam), and enter the nickname (bijnaam) as Also Known As (AKA) NAME type.
Suppose David Smith has the call name (roepnaam) Dave and the nickname (bijnaam) Goliath. Then I do this as follows:
Suppose David Smith has the call name (roepnaam) Dave and the nickname (bijnaam) Goliath. Then I do this as follows:
Code:
1 NAME David Smith
2 NICK Dave
1 NAME Goliath
2 TYPE aka
2 NOTE bijnaam
• webtrees 2.0.19 (later 2.0.x versions have a different markdown implementation)
+ XAMPP 8.2.12 with PHP 7.4.33 + Rural theme + Vesta Classic L&F & Ext. Relationships + other modules
• latest webtrees 2.1.x (only for testing and presentation) + PHP 8.2.x
Last edit: 4 months 3 weeks ago by TheDutchJewel.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.