Question Best desktop app to use alongside webtrees?

Pretty much as the title says...

What I'm looking for is a desktop app that I can use offline and as a data backup of my webtrees tree. I can see, and have read about the issues with researching in say Ancestry or MyHeritage and then exporting the gedcom and subsequent import to webtrees. But mostly because I'm a paranoid sort of chap about data retention I want to also have access to the tree elsewhere.

I'm happy for my webtree version to be the master, just looking for an app (if anybody knows one) that will handle webtrees data and be able to import/export to/from it without any issues.

Does such a beast exist?

App "without any issues", I do not know, I suppose there is none, except:

Use a local installation of webtrees (with xampp, or something similar) , if you have a windows-system.

Franz Frese wrote:

App "without any issues", I do not know, I suppose there is none, except:

Use a local installation of webtrees (with xampp, or something similar) , if you have a windows-system.

I feel the same. It kind of depends on a lot of variables.

First, every "app" including webtrees has some local dialect of GEDCOM, which means that some things will not transfer exactly from one program to another. Some commercial programs are very bad at following GEDCOM v5.5.1 and others are better.

Second, I depends on what you intend to do with the desktop app! Some reports will work perfectly fine on most desktop apps when you transfer via GEDCOM, but other reports will not. This will be due to data loss via GEDCOM or that their dialect does not support GEDCOM the same way webtrees supports it in specific areas like subtags and/or custom tags that are not part of GEDCOM.

Third, I would NEVER do round-tripping where I edit on both webtrees and the desktop, passing GEDCOM between them unless both programs has the exact same dialect.

The Franz suggestion of using webtrees locally using XAMPP works!

I only use webtrees, installed on my own domain. In today's world servers are available 24/7 and internet is accessible everywhere. So I also have used webtrees while travelling on the bus or train, with my phone on mobile data.

There are plenty capable desktop applications, both paid for and free. If you read reviews then they all have their good and bad points. Grass on the other side always seems somewhat greener.

If you want peace of mind and have regular backups of your data, then firstly I'd advice looking into what backup arrangements are already there on your platform. Both on file level and on the database.

You could also use the following module to schedule downloading of the GEDCOM by a cron job elsewhere
github.com/Jefferson49/DownloadGedcomWithURL

Now why didn't I think of XAMPP - I have used it for helping a local charity to develop their website but it didn't even cross my mind that this would be viable.

Thanks.

Third, I would NEVER do round-tripping where I edit on both webtrees and the desktop, passing GEDCOM between them unless both programs has the exact same dialect.

That is not my intention but there are times I am completely offline and with time to spare to do checking, etc. Also, in total honesty I don't find the webtrees frontend to be completely intuitive and struggle to get around it at times.

bertkoor wrote:

If you want peace of mind and have regular backups of your data, then firstly I'd advice looking into what backup arrangements are already there on your platform. Both on file level and on the database.

You could also use the following module to schedule downloading of the GEDCOM by a cron job elsewhere
github.com/Jefferson49/DownloadGedcomWithURL

As someone that works in IT I have seen way too many folks trust online backups created by a  third party come unstuck because the host ISP has had a complete system failure, etc.. it happens. But I will take a look at that plugin and all else fails I will set myself a reminder to manually do it. But as above I will certainly look at the XAMPP approach.

If it is about backup,
in any case I would always create a gedcom (.ged) file and store in a safe place, (this is a must have, imho)

second a copy of the places coordinates (if they exist)
third the text of html-blocks (wellcome, ...)
perhaps a list of the users (e-mail addy, ...)
 

@stubbyd, it‘s not clear what you are trying to achieve. A Backup should be stored safely and not be tampered with. The offline maintenance of your genealogical data requires a later synch to the primary database. How to you plan to do this if not by „round tripping“? If you plan to apply the changes later manually to webtrees, then tell us what OS you plan to use for your offline maintenance activities.

stubbyd wrote:

Third, I would NEVER do round-tripping where I edit on both webtrees and the desktop, passing GEDCOM between them unless both programs has the exact same dialect.

That is not my intention but there are times I am completely offline and with time to spare to do checking, etc. Also, in total honesty I don't find the webtrees frontend to be completely intuitive and struggle to get around it at times.

Being offline with spare time and doing “checking” can be done with just about any program/app, it is the “update/data entry” using the offline app that causes me to cringe. So if your intent is to just have a way to bring your current data into the field (i.e. library, graveyard, etc) as a reference then either XMAPP with webtrees, Desktop App (Family Historian, Family Tree Maker, Legacy, Roots Magic, Other), and a notebook for notes will work fine. When I’m in the field researching I don’t usually add directly to webtrees because I find it hard to implement good data entry practices while standing in a field, sitting at a library table, or conducting an interview.

As far as the front-end of webtrees not being intuitive, what things do you struggle with? What part of your data entry process is hampered by the GUI and/or design of webtrees? What suggestions do you have to make the online web-based application better and more intuitive?

Third, I would NEVER do round-tripping where I edit on both webtrees and the desktop, passing GEDCOM between them unless both programs has the exact same dialect.

I'm not quite sure if my MO would be described as round-tripping but I use webtrees offline locally on XAMPP as my primary place to add to and edit my tree. Periodically I export my GEDCOM and Geographic data and new images and import and overwrite to my online public tree and add and update images.
I never go back the other way. If that's round-tripping it seems to be working without problems for me. 
I also keep a backup of GEDCOM, Geographic data, images, database and some config. files offline and off computer - probably should keep those in a Faraday Cage if I was really paranoid and thinking about CMEs.
Am I round-tripping?    

I define “round-tripping” as editing data on platform “A”, transferring data from “A” to “B”, then transferring data from “B” back to “A”.  Unless both A and B are the same software and configured the same the transfer of data will most likely cause some data to be lost or misinterpreted in one of the transfers!

Graphically A -> B -> A is round tripping.  Kind of like taking a round trip flight.
It is complicated even more when an edit is done on “B”.  

Using two software programs could possibly cause some data to be lost either when the GEDCOM is produced or when the GEDCOM is read into the second program.  This issue is greatly reduced if the programs are the same, but I’ve noted on the help boards for other programs that sometimes they produce a GEDCOM that when read back into the same program some piece of data is lost.  

One of the great upsides to your tree residing on a server that can be accessed remotely from anywhere is that you are always dealing with the same program/interface/data.  

You are not round-tripping and you have a great chance of not losing data if both programs are the same and you are careful to load all things on both systems correctly.

NOTE: I’m not against using multiple software programs to do genealogy, but you must know what issues (dropped/lost data, converted data, language issues, file system changes) this will cause by transferring data. Know what data needs to be transferred and where it must go on the receiving application!  I’ve experimented with and owned a lot of different genealogy software since the early 1980s, written some tools and data entry programs as well!  None were perfect and few interfaced well with others.

Thanks Ken, that's very good to know.
Personally I like to work offline where I can make mistakes and correct them, I can be a bit speculative while I find proof and generally take my time before I'm ready to go "live". So far webtress is working really well for this one direction updating.
 

Up until switching over to webtrees, I kept an offline version of my tree.  I intend to go back to Reunion after I upgrade my macOS. I ***NEVER*** export as Reunion admits it doesn't follow GECOM standards to any trustworthy degree. That said, I have lots of data that I do not want online. I can see side-by-side husband/wife record with their parents, offspring. Reports are easier to produce and exportable, printable. 
As I rebuild my tree, I only created a webtrees online version of the base trunk of my tree. The thousands of other folks are offline waiting for attention.

ich habe immer wieder Schwierigkeiten solchen Beiträgen einen Sinn zu entnehmen.

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I repeatedy have difficulty making sense of posts like this.

ich habe immer wieder Schwierigkeiten solchen Beiträgen einen Sinn zu entnehmen.I repeatedy have difficulty making sense of posts like this.

This from the master of the one word reply

Where?

Where?

There.

you won't find more and a picture is more worth than thousands of words.

you can always just use your  control panel like cPanel to schedule regular backups and then 1 or 2 times a week log in and download a backup n store it on your PC.