Question Survey - Does your “other software” use the <event>.PLAC.FORM tag?

Before I came to PHPGedView and later webtrees, I wrote my own PC based application that tried to be 100% GEDCOM compatible.  With that I tried to incorporate the <event>.PLAC.FORM tag.  I found that using that tag was not easy and had so many variables it was hard to implement.

My question is for those of you that have other programs, “How many of them support the entry of an <event>.PLAC.FORM tag? “  This is not a question of do you use it, (although it would ok to say you do) but does your other software actually provide an option to enter it and what does it do with the information!

Thanks

I tried many genealogical programs but never found one that has implemented the FORM tag; not in the HEAD or as <event>.PLAC.FORM. Therefore I'm using a four-level hierarchy in PLAC like "Freiburg, Freiburg, Baden-Württemberg, DEU". In different countries, it looks a bit different. Most of the programs, I tested, can use that even without the FORM tag.

And I'm using hierarchical "shared locations (_LOC)" using the Vesta custom modules. There you can define a type for each object based on a list of hundreds of types used in GOV for each object .    

Afaik FORM defines the meaning of the hierarchy levels.
I do not use a hierarchy, so I do not need the form.
I use the PLAC as description of the location and attach coordinates.

Herman, thanks for your reply.

What programs have you used over the years? I realize that GOV has the "type" but is that really implemented by programs and entered by users, or is it just there and no real users enter the FORM data?

Franz, thanks for the reply.

I understand what the FORM payload is designed to do, but my question is: Do programs support entering the data, and does real user actually enter the data? I've already noted that Family Historian 7 does not have the field as an entry on any input screen.

Thanks

sorry, my answer should be a reply to Hermann.

answer to you: I did not see any app.

What programs have you used over the years?

I have used the following programs during the last twenty years but never found a hint that FORM is supported by any functionality:
Program OS
Collectionaire Browser
FamiliySearch Browser
Find a Grave Browser
GenealogieOnline.nl Browser
Geneanet Browser
Geneweb, 6 und 7 Browser
Geni Browser
GrampsWeb Browser
hoeh.family Browser
My Heritage Browser
webtrees Browser
WeRelate Browser
WikiTree Browser
ZoomPast Browser
Ancestry App iOS 
Familienstammbaum iOS 
iOS FamilyTree iOS 
iOS GedView iOS 
Geneanet iOS 
Heredis iOS 
My Heritage iOS 
PHPGEdView iOS 
RootsMagic 7 iOS 
Ages Windows 10 
Ahnenchronik 7.0 Windows 10 
Ancestral Quest16 Windows 10 
Familienbande  Windows 10 
Familienbuch 6.0 Windows 10 
GedSite 4 Windows 10 
GedStar Pro Windows 10 
Genealogica Grafica Windows 10 
My Family Tree Windows 10 
MyHeritage Family Tree Builder Windows 10 
OFB 7.7.2 Windows 10 
PAF 5 Windows 10 
RootsMagic 7 Windows 10 
WinGeno Windows 10 
Ahnenblatt 3 Windows 11 
GedTool Windows 11 
Gramps Windows 11 
Heredis 2025 Windows 11 
Legacy 9.0 Windows 11 
Stammbaumdrucker 8 Premium Windows 11 
The Complete Genealogy Builder/Reporter Windows 11 

@all: Please correct me, if I have overseen that a program in this list supports FORM.

I realize that GOV has the "type" but is that really implemented by programs and entered by users, or is it just there and no real users enter the FORM data?

The type of a location is implemented by the webtrees custom Vesta modules. Meaning: "You can as a user select a value from a long list of types, the data is imported/stored/exported, the value is shown in the user interface, but there is no functionality behind it" (as far as I know). Wether other users use the type of shared location: I don't know.

Regarding FORM and webtrees: I assume you can store FORM in the HEAD and under event.PLAC (import and export via GEDCOM), but there is no functionality behind it - as far as I know. I never tried it.    

Thanks Herman, you answered my initial question which was, “How many of them support the entry of an <event>.PLAC.FORM tag? “.

As far as Vesta and webtrees, this was not part of my investigation, and is actually outside of my scope! I personally don’t use FORM at this time and if no software in “general use” can enter it, does FORM have value?

does FORM have value?

No.

The FORM tag was introduced in 1991 with v5.0, according to a table of tags I found online.
Source: www.tamurajones.net/GEDCOMTags.xhtml

Some background:

TamuraJones wrote: The GEDCOM 5.0 draft specification was introduced in 1991. It was followed by GEDCOM 5.5 in 1995. In between several more draft were published, most notably GEDCOM 5.3.

For a long time, the GEDCOM 5.0 specification was not publicly available. Last year (2010), I asked FamilySearch about copies for older GEDCOM specifications, and after several delays and evasive replies, they admitted that they are unable to find their own standards…

The GEDCOM 5.0 column below was originally a provisional column, based on a reading of the GEDCOM 5.3 and GEDCOM 5.4 specifications, later slightly improved by a reading of the GEDCOM 4.0 specification. It is now based on the GEDCOM 5.0 draft specification of 1991 Sep 25, contributed early in 2016 by Peter Glassenbury.

Speculation: someone in the committee had advocated for it. And it does make some sense: if places are recorded in a hierarchy, then why not label which level has what meaning, so a GUI can show the labels to avoid any confusion for writer and reader. Also really nice and thought-through is the ability to deviate from the standard per recorded place.

Have we found any software using it as intended? No.
Does it have value? In theory: yes. In practice: not so much.

In my work (computer programmer) I'm now working on a system which is relatively young (2 years). In analysing stored data I find a disturbing large portion of database fields and even whole tables that look logical on paper but are actually not used in practice. Nobody dares to delete it, in case there is a well hidden usage which will then fail.

I'd file it under YAGNI (You Ain't Gonna Need It)

Now when I think about it a bit more.. Actually using a PLAC.FORM would make data entry much more complex and could even easily frustrate editors. Similar as the structured fields for an address split into street and house number, the pragmatic approach "write as you would put it on an envelope" is elegant, simple and effective.

Now when I think about it a bit more.. Actually using a PLAC.FORM would make data entry much more complex and could even easily frustrate editors. Similar as the structured fields for an address split into street and house number, the pragmatic approach "write as you would put it on an envelope" is elegant, simple and effective.

Bert, Thanks for your comment, you echo my thoughts!