Question Raw GEDCOM edit

I am a bit disappointed that only site admins can now edit GEDCOM.

I'd like to grant it to users individually--or at least let it be bundled with GEDCOM admin.

Two different issues Wes...

1 - Ability of users to edit Raw GEDCOM data.

This hasn't changed. Not sure what is making you think it is site admin only. Here on the DEMO pages, if you login as Demo_admin (who is a GEDCOM admin only) you can edit raw GEDCOM data.

2 - Set the ability of individual users to be able / not able to edit raw GEDCOM data.

That is a valid Feature Request, although not one I personally agree with (but that's not an issue ). My view has always been to keep it simple. So if (and thats a very big IF on my site) I grant a user edit rights, then they have edit rights to everything at GEDCOM level. I can't be bothered messing with settings at the individual user level. We already have more than enough config options!! I can see why some, perhaps even many, admins might want this though.

I gave myself two accounts. One is site admin, the other is admin on each GEDCOM. When I am logged in as the latter, edit GEDCOM never appears on my edit menu for INDI (I didn't look on FAM). If I log out, log in as site admin, and go to the same INDI, it is there again.

I'd personally be happy for it to be bundled with edit rights as before. Most people would leave it alone if they don't know what they're doing, and admin review could handle the rest.

Check GEDCOM config - Hide & Show. I suspect you've got "Allow users to see raw GEDCOM" set to NO.

That hides it from all users except site admin.

Change it to YES, and it is visible to all registered users, and editable by those with edit rights.

Yes, that's it. I don't remembe ever changing it. Hmmm.

You probably didn't. Its NO by default.

As a general principle we try to set privacy-type defaults to the "safer" setting. Its then up to admins to loosen the settings as they want.

That might have been different in PGV (I can't remember now)

Nigel
Yes, you are correct that there is a different default setting in PGV, and YES, IOHO, the change was appropriate and correct. I would never want even my most experienced users being able to view or edit RAW gedcom. Like the Quick Update, it only leads to possible serious errors and poor habits.
Stephen

I hope that invalid GEDCOM cannot be saved from such an edit. If the syntax is legal, what kind of serious errors can it lead to? One can put nonsense into _any_ edit interface. Especially I'd question the word "only". I've done 90% or more of my edits for twenty years directly in GEDCOM with few errors that I would call serious.
Direct editing of GEDCOM is way more efficient than any filo-in-the-blanks form I've seen anywhere, even without a program to manage the links.

Thats exactly the point Stephen is making. Invalid GEDCOM can most certainly be created in it. Try it. Even such a simple thing as not putting a space between "1" and "NAME" when entering a basic name tag.

Editing raw GEDCOM permits you to enter ANYTHING. It would, ASFAIK, be an enormous task to try and check for invalid GEDCOM tags etc.

Such errors are unlikely to actually damage your data or WT installation, but it can certainly mess up your connections.

In many cases WT (and PGV for that matter) will ignore anything it doesn't know how to display.

But the worst "mess" the unwitting can cause is to add or remove only one end of a XREF tag, like OBJE, FAM, INDI, etc, usually because they don't understand the basics of GEDCOM.

"Direct editing of GEDCOM is way more efficient" is fine IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, as I know you do.
If you don't then it is most certainly NOT efficient. In fact its down-right stupid. Stephen and I have both spent far too many hours helping users/admins who have tried to "fix" things by injudicious raw editing.

I can almost hear someone already saying "but surely you can prevent errors, omissions, etc by good coding, data checks etc?" That is possibly true, but the raw edit feature exists ONLY for those of us who do know what we are doing, so such extravagant coding is unnecessary, providing you don't let the uneducated loose with it ) I would NEVER want to see it developed as a common-use method of entering data.

I look on it much like php or html coding. I'm quite happy, in fact prefer, to just type in a very basic notepad-type interface. But others prefer to use a GUI interface such as FrontPage. My way is much more efficient, but you do have to know what you are doing!

extravagant coding is unnecessary, providing you don't let the uneducated loose with it

The suspicion of that is why I mentioned it as either "per-user" setting or bundiing with "GEDCOM admin"

What if GEDCheck were run on each fragment saved? Plus not letting links and IDs be changed, since GEDCheck can't check links on a fragment. I used LifeLines long ago, and IIRC, it does do some sort of check on save.

Another idea would be for raw GEDCOM to be instead of a config option, to require the admin to provide his/her own editor module. No module, no GEDCOM edit. And if he/she builds a module that does no checking, any consequences are not webtrees’ fault.

What's wrong with the current status? If U have used raw as much as U say U have, I'm shocked U haven't found yourself making errors. I know I have with some frequency, and I think I know what I'm doing
I know when I'm cutting and pasting and adding GIVN and SURN name info, I've screwed up often, forgeting a space or a cr or missing a dupe DEAT tag or... should I continue?

I see nothing wrong with the current config options and certainly don't need an individual user config option.

I have indeed made errors, but I don't remember any that couldn't be made in a text-field form.

Nothing “wrong” with the current, but it is an all or nothing on a valuable feature. I agree that someone who does not understand the syntax can, if not syntax-checked, make a bit of a mess if they don't have the common sense to keep their hands off something they don't understand. If I ever find such a user, I'll have to either turn off the option or turn off the user. Or write a GEDCOM editor module

Wes
See, here's the difference between you and i on this matter. With over 300 users, I don't have a single one that I'd let muck with the Raw Code, despite two or three being pretty proficient (having entered over 1000 INDI's each) in PGV. There is not one I'd consider an 'admin level' either.

And, as a regular HELP contributor, I can't count the number of times I've had to suggest something to fix a problem created in PGV by someone playing with the RAW edit, who self-professed that they unequivocally knew what they were doing, but erased a 1 FAMC or 1 FAMS reading them as duplicates - or worse.

I've had entire INDI pages freeze (non-present due to gedcom errors) created when coding bugs failed to insert a c/r after a string and leave something like
2 SOUR @S31@1 DEAT
2 DATE 04 MAR 1990
2 PLAC Indianapolis, Center Twp, Marion Co, Indiana, USA

And I too have inadvertently tried to type to quickly and missed spaces, or improperly numbered tags (a 1 DATE or a 1 PAGE or a 1 CONT following a 1 NOTE). I readily admit to using it for most user change reviews and to make corrections to the data they mis-entered while adding or changing INDIs or FAMs, but I would never, ever - not in a million years - consider giving them access to the Raw. Heck, I don't even let users see the GEDCOM code - only the GUI interfaces.

Adding a configuration to allow this on a by-user basis seems to be asking for trouble - one more configuration option to check to be sure you have not screwed something up with a new user. If the person is good enough with the GEDCOM tags to be editing raw code, they are most likely good enough to be an admin. Just - none of mine are that talented, for sure.

I have seen that, but it has never caused a problem beyond looking odd on screen.

I suppose IF I ever persuade anyone to join my site, I will remember your experience and turn it off again.