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Question Quick facts

  • mac.alter
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2 weeks 6 days ago #1 by mac.alter
Quick facts was created by mac.alter
As shown, I have Social Security Number as a Quick Fact.
 

But, it doesn't appear on a record bottom. Or, in the dropdown menu.  None of these are set to be unique.
 

Mac.alter [update: 23 Oct 2023]
webtrees 2.1.18 | PHP Version 8.1.17 | mySQL 8.1 | MacOS 10.15.17

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2 weeks 6 days ago - 2 weeks 6 days ago #2 by Franz Frese
Replied by Franz Frese on topic Quick facts
I see it
 

the dropdown you can separately "Hide" in control panel GEDCOM-tags
 
Last edit: 2 weeks 6 days ago by Franz Frese.

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2 weeks 6 days ago #3 by drblam
Replied by drblam on topic Quick facts
There was a subtle change in behavior by webtrees some months ago, which I find confusing and slightly broken....

If you add "Social Security Number" to the list of Quick Individual Facts (as you did), then it will be displayed in the "Add a fact" block below the drop-down menu on the Individual page (as shown by Franz Frese).

HOWEVER, once an Individual record HAS a "Social Security Number" fact, IT IS NO LONGER SHOWN in the "Add a fact" block.  Instead, you must go to the sidebar (below the big blue EDIT button) where the "Family navigator" block is usually expanded, and expand the top block called "Extra information". By default this block shows info about the last change for this record. However, if that person does have a Social Security Number it will be also be included here.

OK, now the slightly broken part. My account has Administrator priviledges, so there are no privacy rules to prevent me from seeing the SSN, and indeed when I expand the "Extra Information" block I can see the SSN displayed. However, the associated source citation to "U.S. Social Security Death Index" has a downward triangle followed by an upward triangle in front  and CANNOT be expanded. The source citation includes birth and death dates, plus last address where their benefits were sent, which is far less sensitive than the actual SSN, in my opinion. The only way to view or modify the source citation is to select "Edit the Raw GEDCOM" which is both inconvenient and dangerous.

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  • mac.alter
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2 weeks 6 days ago - 2 weeks 6 days ago #4 by mac.alter
Replied by mac.alter on topic Quick facts
Ah, ha. webtrees is doing what kiwitrees does -- hiding it in Extra Information (which I dislike for this exact reason) Last place I'd look for the info. (I am administrator).

Hence, as you say, it disappears from the Quick Facts option and drop down.
Why is it put in Extra Information? Very messy there. Some records I have two entries (SSN application, SSDI). Very crowded and hard to read. 

For quite awhile sources online didn't provide the actual number for security reasons but now I find it on Ancestry. 

As for Source -- I am viewing the text portion of my Source  (and the two arrows) that display name , birth, death, last residence, etc. The text shows the actual SSN number in two paces - the SSN field and within body of text.

Mac.alter [update: 23 Oct 2023]
webtrees 2.1.18 | PHP Version 8.1.17 | mySQL 8.1 | MacOS 10.15.17
Last edit: 2 weeks 6 days ago by mac.alter.

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2 weeks 6 days ago #5 by Franz Frese
Replied by Franz Frese on topic Quick facts
You can hide extra information. Then the tags, normaly shown there, appear at the other expected positions.

You also have to look into the privacy restrictions, where you can hide SSN (and other tags) from visibility.

I am logged in as admin and I see the SSN in the drodown, even if SSN is shown in "Extra Information".

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  • mac.alter
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2 weeks 6 days ago #6 by mac.alter
Replied by mac.alter on topic Quick facts
Now that you mention it, may do that (hid Extra Info). With Vesta installed, I have the REFN number I love and don't need to see last update (can sit wherever in record).

Mac.alter [update: 23 Oct 2023]
webtrees 2.1.18 | PHP Version 8.1.17 | mySQL 8.1 | MacOS 10.15.17

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2 weeks 6 days ago #7 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic Quick facts
> don't need to see last update (can sit wherever in record).

Set the default privacy restriction for "Last change" facts to "hide from everyone", and you won't see them.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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2 weeks 6 days ago #8 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic Quick facts
> Why is it put in Extra Information?

This is largely "non-genealogical" data or "meta-data".

It's hidden out of the way, as it is normally a distraction from the births/deaths/marriages/etc.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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2 weeks 6 days ago #9 by mac.alter
Replied by mac.alter on topic Quick facts
No, want it available (change). Turned off Exra Info. For me, makes no sense whatsoever hiding it from the Admin who by default is only person that can see.

Mac.alter [update: 23 Oct 2023]
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1 week 6 days ago #10 by mac.alter
Replied by mac.alter on topic Quick facts
I added a "new" Social Security Number" fact but cannot find "Social Security Death Index" act to add. Either in dropdown or as a Quick Fact (not option I want)

Mac.alter [update: 23 Oct 2023]
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1 week 6 days ago - 1 week 6 days ago #11 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic Quick facts
"Social Security Death Index" sounds to me like a Source, not a Fact or Event.

I'd expect in the Death event (and also in other facts/events you copied from it) you make a link to it as a Source (with citation details) as a confirmation the fact/event data you have is correct.

If the SSDI holds a record id you want to have in webtrees as well, I'd put it in the Citation Details where you have SSDI as a Source.

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13
Last edit: 1 week 6 days ago by bertkoor.

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  • mac.alter
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1 week 5 days ago - 1 week 5 days ago #12 by mac.alter
Replied by mac.alter on topic Quick facts
SSDI is an Event  (date/location). I've never seen the Social Security Applications (I'm new to Ancestry) but often the former.  So in webtrees, how are these two handled:

U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007:
Name     John Edward Desmith [John E DE Smith]
Gender     Male
Race     White
Birth Date     19 Aug 1919
Birth Place     La L A La, California
Death Date     30 Aug 1996
Father     Edward P Desmith
Mother     Ruth J Klause
SSN     555248430 


U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014 :
Name     John E. De Smith
Social Security Number     555-24-8430
Birth Date     19 Aug 1919
Issue year     Before 1951
Issue State     California
Last Residence     92562, Murrieta, Riverside, California, USA
Death Date     30 Aug 1996 
 

Mac.alter [update: 23 Oct 2023]
webtrees 2.1.18 | PHP Version 8.1.17 | mySQL 8.1 | MacOS 10.15.17
Last edit: 1 week 5 days ago by mac.alter.

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1 week 5 days ago - 1 week 5 days ago #13 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic Quick facts
I have no idea what you are trying to say in your entry above, but here is what I would expect in no particular order!!

1. A Source_Record Created for the Social Security Index (SSDI)
2. Facts for John Edward Desmith with Citation Detail that points at the SSDI
a. Birth 
b. SSN
3. Facts for John E De Smith with Citation Detail that points at the SSDI
a. Birth 
b. SSN
c. Death
d. Residence

I would also enter as part of each citation the appropriate text from the SSDI for each record instance found to capture other information from the SSDI entry.

To document the potential connection of the named parents when you create the family_record you can add a NOTE as well.

It also make some sense to actually create a NOTE_Record with a source_citation and using a table to layout all of the data in the SSDI entry and connect it to the facts listed above!

 

Ken
Last edit: 1 week 5 days ago by norwegian_sardines.

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  • mac.alter
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1 week 5 days ago - 1 week 5 days ago #14 by mac.alter
Replied by mac.alter on topic Quick facts
The two are examples from Ancestry. Not sure what's not understandable. I'm actually not following your reply.  webtrees and kiwitrees differs so am asking for entry. Previous entry for SSDI: I know the Source Citation is proper, I don't use, too narrow a field. I put into the Text field.

My kiwitrees entry would be:
142-01-4568
 New Jersey, USA
Source:  U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014 
Text: NAME SALLY SMITH
BIRTH 26 May 1907
DEATH Mar 1987
LAST RESIDENCE 08618 (Trenton, Mercer, NJ)
LAST BENEFIT (none specified)
ISSUED New Jersey
SSN *142-01-4568
AGE: 79.

Mac.alter [update: 23 Oct 2023]
webtrees 2.1.18 | PHP Version 8.1.17 | mySQL 8.1 | MacOS 10.15.17
Last edit: 1 week 5 days ago by mac.alter.

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1 week 5 days ago #15 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic Quick facts
> SSDI is an Event

We think it is not an attribute or something that happens to a person (fact / event) but it is a record of attributes and what happened to a person, and hence merely a Source.

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13

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  • mac.alter
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1 week 5 days ago - 1 week 5 days ago #16 by mac.alter
Replied by mac.alter on topic Quick facts
My entry:
My kiwitrees entry would be:
142-01-4568
 New Jersey, USA

Source:  U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014 

We don't disagree I have SSDI as a source (in bold). My problem is how to enter in webtrees. A source needs something to be attache to. To what? In my entry, it's attached to the first two lines (underlined) that was an option to select (Social Insurance Number). In webtrees ?????
 

Mac.alter [update: 23 Oct 2023]
webtrees 2.1.18 | PHP Version 8.1.17 | mySQL 8.1 | MacOS 10.15.17
Last edit: 1 week 5 days ago by mac.alter.

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  • norwegian_sardines
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1 week 5 days ago #17 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic Quick facts
GEDCOM is GEDCOM is GEDCOM!

1) Source_record
Code:
0 @S114@ SOUR 1 TITL Social Security Death Index: US 1935-2014 1 REPO @R2@

2) Note_Record
Code:
0 @X461@ NOTE [Name] From SSDI Entry 1 CONT | Title | Data | 1 CONT | ----------- | ----------- | 1 CONT | Mother | Name |

3) Individual_Record
Code:
1 RESI 2 DATE 2 PLAC 2 SOUR @S114@ 3 NOTE @X461@

This is rough off the top of my head!

Ken

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1 week 5 days ago #18 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic Quick facts
The above entry is just a sample of what you can do.  Obviously the RESI entry would be also a BIRT, DEAT, SSN and any other facts that you extract from the SSDI entry you find.  You can tweek some of the data Source_Citation data to be more specific to the actual usage, but that would be just standard citation entry!

The family_record would have a
0 @...@ FAM
1 NOTE @X461@

If this does not make sense to you then I'm not sure what else I can do!

Ken

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1 week 5 days ago - 1 week 5 days ago #19 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic Quick facts
Alternative, to do it your way (but not quick)

Code:
1 FACT 12345 2 TYPE SSDI 2 SOUR ...

Or with a custom tag:
Code:
1 _SSDI 12345 2 SOUR ...

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13
Last edit: 1 week 5 days ago by bertkoor.

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  • mac.alter
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1 week 5 days ago #20 by mac.alter
Replied by mac.alter on topic Quick facts
What I was expecting is having the ability to add source/citation to Social Security Number. Which by default is set to Managers privacy.Not to create a 'workaround'. Oh well.
 
What I did notice too, is only by having this as a Quick Fact could I add it to a record. It's not in the drop down.

Mac.alter [update: 23 Oct 2023]
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