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Question Top 10 names

  • Jacoline
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3 weeks 5 days ago - 3 weeks 5 days ago #1 by Jacoline
Top 10 names was created by Jacoline
When the top 10 names (surnames) which field does it count from? All my females are named with the surname xxxsen and not xxxdaughter. But in the top10 name block I see both. Should it not only count given names/surnames and not names?

EDIT cause mr. Frese do not understand "lastname"

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Last edit: 3 weeks 5 days ago by Jacoline.

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3 weeks 5 days ago - 3 weeks 5 days ago #2 by Franz Frese
Replied by Franz Frese on topic Top 10 names
There is no tag named "lastname". Counted is the tag for "surname".

Counted is, what you entered into the corresponding fields.

 
Last edit: 3 weeks 5 days ago by Franz Frese.

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3 weeks 5 days ago - 3 weeks 5 days ago #3 by Franz Frese
Replied by Franz Frese on topic Top 10 names
For danish, norwegian, ... this counting makes not the same sense as in other areas, where relationship is given by same surname. For example father, daughter and son have the same surname in many countries.
Last edit: 3 weeks 5 days ago by Franz Frese.

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  • Jacoline
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3 weeks 5 days ago #4 by Jacoline
Replied by Jacoline on topic Top 10 names

Counted is, what you entered into the corresponding fields.

 

In name I have ex. Maren Andersdatter. But her surname is Andersen. So it should not count Andersdatter since surname is Andersen. And Andersen is the surname no matter which country.

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3 weeks 5 days ago #5 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic Top 10 names
> In name I have ex. Maren Andersdatter. But her surname is Andersen

So, I guess you have this

1 NAME Maren /Andersdatter/
2 SURN Andersen

This says that Maren has the surname "Andersen", but it should be displayed as "Andersdatter".

This logic is based around surname traditions that use inflected forms for male/female.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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3 weeks 5 days ago #6 by Franz Frese
Replied by Franz Frese on topic Top 10 names
That should be as you say, if entered into the surname tag.
have a look at the corresponding gedcom parts.

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  • Jacoline
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3 weeks 5 days ago #7 by Jacoline
Replied by Jacoline on topic Top 10 names

> In name I have ex. Maren Andersdatter. But her surname is Andersen

So, I guess you have this

1 NAME Maren /Andersdatter/
2 SURN Andersen

This says that Maren has the surname "Andersen", but it should be displayed as "Andersdatter".

This logic is based around surname traditions that use inflected forms for male/female.

Yes I have it in that way - just to keep stats simple - If I understand you right - you have this in your code? Like if females birth (surname) is Andersen then convert it to Andersdatter. Or is it wrong how to count?

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  • Jacoline
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3 weeks 5 days ago - 3 weeks 5 days ago #8 by Jacoline
Replied by Jacoline on topic Top 10 names

That should be as you say, if entered into the surname tag.
have a look at the corresponding gedcom parts.

My gedcom says surname is Andersen not Andersdatter. Only in name as Greg stated in his answer

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Last edit: 3 weeks 5 days ago by Jacoline.

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3 weeks 5 days ago #9 by Franz Frese
Replied by Franz Frese on topic Top 10 names
I had a look at my test db.
I see you are right.
Not the surname is counted, but what is entered between the two slashes.

 

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  • Jacoline
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3 weeks 4 days ago #10 by Jacoline
Replied by Jacoline on topic Top 10 names

I had a look at my test db.
I see you are right.
Not the surname is counted, but what is entered between the two slashes.
 

IMO that counting is wrong. In names we can have some nicknames ect. It should only count first- & surname. Can not have a top10 counting on surnames when it is not a surname. I hope Greg can see that!

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3 weeks 4 days ago - 3 weeks 4 days ago #11 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic Top 10 names
Greg has said previously that statistics on names in webtrees can never be exact for several reasons, and these are provided mostly for entertainment.

The "home" page of all your trees is blank for me. Am I not patient enough, or did you put the blocks offline?

Concrete example from your site:
Code:
Name: Anna Cathrine /Andersdatter/ Given names: Anna Cathrine Surname: Andersen


That is indeed how it should be. Congrats!

I looked at your statistics chart:

 

In the tree "Slægten Weinreich" the general search comes up with 56 persons on "Andersen" (which includes all Andersdatters, as it should) and 20 persons on "Andersdatter". That is enough to be listed in the statistics inbetween Nielsen (16 persons) and Jörgenson (23), but the Andersdatters are omitted.

So it looks like the statistics is indeed not counting the Andersdatters. I think that is a bug indeed...

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13
Last edit: 3 weeks 4 days ago by bertkoor.

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3 weeks 4 days ago #12 by Franz Frese
Replied by Franz Frese on topic Top 10 names

I had a look at my test db.
I see you are right.
Not the surname is counted, but what is entered between the two slashes.

 

IMO that counting is wrong. In names we can have some nicknames ect. It should only count first- & surname. Can not have a top10 counting on surnames when it is not a surname. I hope Greg can see that!

No, you can not distinguish. In GEDCOM Nickname is a subtag of the Name tag. So nicknames are never counted.

On counting surnames you can have a look at the TYPE subtag and do not count all of them (without type, of type birth, marriage, ...).
(Which one(s) do you want to be counted or the common user wants ...? What overview or goal do you want to achieve with such a list?)
 

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  • Jacoline
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3 weeks 4 days ago - 3 weeks 4 days ago #13 by Jacoline
Replied by Jacoline on topic Top 10 names

I had a look at my test db.
I see you are right.
Not the surname is counted, but what is entered between the two slashes.



 

IMO that counting is wrong. In names we can have some nicknames ect. It should only count first- & surname. Can not have a top10 counting on surnames when it is not a surname. I hope Greg can see that!

No, you can not distinguish. In GEDCOM Nickname is a subtag of the Name tag. So nicknames are never counted.

On counting surnames you can have a look at the TYPE subtag and do not count all of them (without type, of type birth, marriage, ...).
(Which one(s) do you want to be counted or the common user wants ...? What overview or goal do you want to achieve with such a list?)


 

Counted surnames and not at names. I use stats thats why

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Last edit: 3 weeks 4 days ago by Jacoline.

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  • Jacoline
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3 weeks 4 days ago - 3 weeks 4 days ago #14 by Jacoline
Replied by Jacoline on topic Top 10 names

Greg has said previously that statistics on names in webtrees can never be exact for several reasons, and these are provided mostly for entertainment.

The "home" page of all your trees is blank for me. Am I not patient enough, or did you put the blocks offline?

Concrete example from your site:
Code:
Name: Anna Cathrine /Andersdatter/ Given names: Anna Cathrine Surname: Andersen


That is indeed how it should be. Congrats!

I looked at your statistics chart:

 

In the tree "Slægten Weinreich" the general search comes up with 56 persons on "Andersen" (which includes all Andersdatters, as it should) and 20 persons on "Andersdatter". That is enough to be listed in the statistics inbetween Nielsen (16 persons) and Jörgenson (23), but the Andersdatters are omitted.

So it looks like the statistics is indeed not counting the Andersdatters. I think that is a bug indeed...

imo it should just open default language - like english. Never been a problem before. You have your language as default in your browser. And it is not danish or english. Prolly your own. And thats why my blocks are empty. It must be a bug!

It should only count on surnames. Nigel changed everything at stats (bc all the counting errors from wt) and after that top10 and stats were correct. And I do not hope it is only made for fun. Either everything is for fun or we do it right. Why then bother change gedcom standards? So I hope Greg will look at this with other eyes than fun!

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Last edit: 3 weeks 4 days ago by Jacoline.

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3 weeks 4 days ago - 3 weeks 4 days ago #15 by Franz Frese
Replied by Franz Frese on topic Top 10 names
Sorry, but I can't follow your thoughts and who is Nigel and gedcom can't be changed.

And "Top ten surnames" is a block of the trees homepage and not of a statistics chart (or whereever it is to be found).
Last edit: 3 weeks 4 days ago by Franz Frese.

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  • bertkoor
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3 weeks 4 days ago - 3 weeks 4 days ago #16 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic Top 10 names
Ah I see...
My preferred languages are set to British English and Dutch.
The languages provided by your website are Dansk and American English.

After changing the language myself I got the home page content.

I think you can add a block for all languages, if I recall that's what I did on my website: added all blocks in Dutch and a fallback in English but not specified that the visitor should be English as well.

who is Nigel
Nigel is the "kiwi" from KiwiTrees: www.webtrees.net/index.php/forum/profile/62-kiwi

And "Top ten surnames" is a block of the trees homepage and not of a statistics chart
I could not see any block on Jacolines home page, yes it is also part of the statistics chart. Both should use the same method of data retrieval.

Now I do see the home page, her first stats block just lists the top names without giving the count.

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13
Last edit: 3 weeks 4 days ago by bertkoor.

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  • Jacoline
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3 weeks 4 days ago - 3 weeks 4 days ago #17 by Jacoline
Replied by Jacoline on topic Top 10 names

Ah I see...
My preferred languages are set to British English and Dutch.
The languages provided by your website are Dansk and American English.

After changing the language myself I got the home page content.

I think you can add a block for all languages, if I recall that's what I did on my website: added all blocks in Dutch and a fallback in English but not specified that the visitor should be English as well.

who is Nigel
Nigel is the "kiwi" from KiwiTrees: www.webtrees.net/index.php/forum/profile/62-kiwi

And "Top ten surnames" is a block of the trees homepage and not of a statistics chart
I could not see any block on Jacolines home page, yes it is also part of the statistics chart. Both should use the same method of data retrieval.

Now I do see the home page, her first stats block just lists the top names without giving the count.
I did not know this was a problem. If I make the english blocks for all. The danish blocks and all will be shown together. I prolly have to remove the english part. Can this be right?

I removed the count number bc they are wrong

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Last edit: 3 weeks 4 days ago by Jacoline.

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  • norwegian_sardines
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3 weeks 4 days ago #18 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic Top 10 names
Jacoline,

What is it that you expect the top ten surname counter to count?

1) Is it people that were born with the surname
2) Is it people that used the surname at some time in their life
3) Is it gender specific, gender neutral

Does a person get counted once or for each SURN entry?

What about GEDCOM imports that don't use SURN just NAME?

This is why the counting can't be 100% accurate and "just for fun"!

Ken

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