Web based family history software

Question How to relate existing individuals

  • Peter_S
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1 week 6 days ago #1 by Peter_S
How to relate existing individuals was created by Peter_S
On the "Families" tab of an individual, I can add a mother, a father or a child to a single-parent family. This works well if the concerned individual does not exist.
But how can I add an "existing" mother?

I know I can do this when editing raw GEDCOM data. But how can I do this in the GUI?

Peter

webtrees 2.1.20, vesta modules, chart modules of magicsunday, extended family and imprint of hartenthaler
PHP 8.2.18, MariaDB 10.3.39
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  • bertkoor
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1 week 6 days ago #2 by bertkoor
Replied by bertkoor on topic How to relate existing individuals
I think it's explained in the German manual: wiki.genealogy.net/Webtrees_Handbuch/Anl...lien-Datens.C3.A4tze

(there is an Edit option on the Family page to 'change family members' which lets you put in an existing person as father or mother of the family)

stamboom.BertKoor.nl runs on webtrees v1.7.13

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  • Peter_S
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1 week 6 days ago #3 by Peter_S
Replied by Peter_S on topic How to relate existing individuals
Thanks Bert for your hint, but it is not explained there. It is possible to add an existing spouse to an individual, but not an existing mother or father. 
Also starting from the mother, I have only found the possibility to add a (new) child to create a single-parent family.

The only way I can see is
1. add a temporary mother to the existing child
2. change the temporary mother in the newly created family to the correct one via "Change family members"
3. delete the temporary mother

3 steps instead of one and not easy to understand. Or have I overlooked a direct way without creating and deleting temporary individuals?

It would be nice if there were a general selection option when adding a relationship (father, mother, child, spouse, ...) to add existing or non-existing individuals.

Peter

webtrees 2.1.20, vesta modules, chart modules of magicsunday, extended family and imprint of hartenthaler
PHP 8.2.18, MariaDB 10.3.39
Webhosting: genonline.de

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1 week 6 days ago #4 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic How to relate existing individuals
> but not an existing mother or father.

On the family tab is an option "Link this individual to an existing family as a child"

So you need an existing family record, not just an individual parent

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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  • Peter_S
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1 week 6 days ago #5 by Peter_S
Replied by Peter_S on topic How to relate existing individuals

On the family tab is an option "Link this individual to an existing family as a child"

So you need an existing family record, not just an individual parent
Hello Greg,

The family doesn't exist. In this case, I need a single-parent family. How to create it?

Peter

webtrees 2.1.20, vesta modules, chart modules of magicsunday, extended family and imprint of hartenthaler
PHP 8.2.18, MariaDB 10.3.39
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1 week 6 days ago #6 by xiao
Replied by xiao on topic How to relate existing individuals

On the family tab is an option "Link this individual to an existing family as a child"

So you need an existing family record, not just an individual parent
Hello Greg,

The family doesn't exist. In this case, I need a single-parent family. How to create it?
My solution is to create the other half first (name it whatever you want), and then delete the other half after adding the child.

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  • Peter_S
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1 week 6 days ago #7 by Peter_S
Replied by Peter_S on topic How to relate existing individuals

My solution is to create the other half first (name it whatever you want), and then delete the other half after adding the child.
This is also a workaround with add/delete of a temporary individual. This would not be necessary if existing and non-existing individuals could be added via a selection option.

Peter

webtrees 2.1.20, vesta modules, chart modules of magicsunday, extended family and imprint of hartenthaler
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1 week 6 days ago #8 by xiao
Replied by xiao on topic How to relate existing individuals

My solution is to create the other half first (name it whatever you want), and then delete the other half after adding the child.
This is also a workaround with add/delete of a temporary individual. This would not be necessary if existing and non-existing individuals could be added via a selection option.
That's right, it would be great if this is possible, and that's what I need, but there is no such function currently.

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1 week 16 hours ago #9 by drblam
Replied by drblam on topic How to relate existing individuals
I agree that the clearest solution would be to generalize the mechanism for creating a new (nuclear) family to begin with any two members, i.e., two spouses, parent plus one child, or two siblings.

On the other hand, if the main concern is simply avoiding the creation of a "temporary" Individual to trigger the new family creation, who will later be deleted, then that can easily be avoided. Consider the example cited by @Peter_S:

It is possible to add an existing spouse to an individual, but not an existing mother or father. 

I have existing Individuals A and B, and my goal is to create a new family where B is the mother of A without using any temporary Individuals.
1. Go to the family tab from B's individual page and select "Add a husband using an existing individual"
2. Fill in Individual A as the Husband and save the form.
3. From the Family page of the newly created family, select "Change family members" and then add Individual A as a child.
4. Select "Change family members" a second time and remove Individual A from the role of Husband.
QED

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1 week 12 hours ago - 1 week 12 hours ago #10 by Peter_S
Replied by Peter_S on topic How to relate existing individuals
Hello drblam,

yes, this is also a workaround (without a temporary individual), but not an optimal solution.
webtrees claims to be self-explanatory without a user manual. In this particular case, this is not possible.
As already written, all relations to new or existing individuals should generally be possible without any tricks.

Peter

webtrees 2.1.20, vesta modules, chart modules of magicsunday, extended family and imprint of hartenthaler
PHP 8.2.18, MariaDB 10.3.39
Webhosting: genonline.de
Last edit: 1 week 12 hours ago by Peter_S.

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1 week 7 hours ago #11 by drblam
Replied by drblam on topic How to relate existing individuals

yes, this is also a workaround (without a temporary individual), but not an optimal solution.
webtrees claims to be self-explanatory without a user manual. In this particular case, this is not possible.
As already written, all relations to new or existing individuals should generally be possible without any tricks.
Hello Peter,
I am in complete agreement with all you say. However, I think the biggest issue here is designing the user interface to make the creation of a new nuclear family as general and intuitive as possible. Here is one suggestion.

Under the Families tab of the Individual page, replace the existing entry:
   Add a husband/wife using an existing individual
by a new entry:
   Link this person to an existing individual by adding both individuals to a new family

When selected, the new form entitled "New Family" would open, which has fields for two individuals, similar to the Relationships chart. The first field would have the current individual preselected, and the user would be responsible for filling the second field with the target individual.

Next to each field, there would be a drop-down menu with a list of possible roles for this person in the "New Family", including husband, wife, child. Since GEDCOM currently assumes that a nuclear family consists of one husband and one wife (not necessarily male and female, respectively), plus zero or more children, as soon as one parent role is selected for one person, the same parent role is removed from the available choices for the second person.

For example, suppose I have two existing individuals, A and B, and want to establish the relationship that B is the mother of A.

Starting from A's individual page, select "Link this person to an existing individual...." so that the new form is initialized with A as person 1. Select the role of "child" from the list ["husband", "wife", "child"] for person 1. Now add B as person 2 and select the role of "mother" from the list ["husband", "wife", "child"] for person 2. STOP.

Starting from B's individual page, select "Link this person to an existing individual...." so that the new form is initialized with B as person 1 and select the role of "mother" from the list ["husband", "wife", "child"] for person 1. Now add A as person 2 and select the role of "child" from the list ["husband", "child"] for person 2. STOP.

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