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Question Can't edit Shared Notes

  • redheadkelly
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11 years 9 months ago #1 by redheadkelly
Can't edit Shared Notes was created by redheadkelly
I have 5 Shared Notes attached to the same Source & when I attempt to edit any of them I get a message saying "Privacy settings prevent you from editing this record."

I tried to find where these Notes are saved in the database so that I could do some troubleshooting, but I can't find where the Notes are.

Any help?

Thanks.

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11 years 9 months ago #2 by ToyGuy
Replied by ToyGuy on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
@kelly

I tried to find where these Notes are saved in the database

How did you try? Did you search the data within the DB via a webtrees tool (like search or batch update) or a direct access program like PhpMyAdmin? Did you try a text search on a snippet (or the XREF) on an independent text version (export the GEDCOM and search)?

All Shared Notes (0 Level NOTE tags) are listed within the SHARED NOTES list:
http://your-webtrees-site/notelist.php?ged=yourGEDCOM.ged

Rollover the 'offending' SN and view the URL, which will include the XREF. Use a exported/downloaded version of your GEDCOM to view the details of that NOTE and see if any special privacy restrictions have been attached.

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11 years 9 months ago #3 by redheadkelly
Replied by redheadkelly on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
That's the weird thing. They're not showing up in the Shared Notes list. Even if I do a General Search of Shared Notes & enter a word I know is in these particular Shared Notes, they don't show up. The only place I even see that they exist is if I go to the Source that they are attached to. Even then, It just has 5 spaces for Shared Notes, but none of the Notes show any Title information. That's where I have been clicking to try to Edit the notes.

So, I went looking for them using PhpMyAdmin, but can't find them in the database. Not that they're not there, I just don't know where to look.

Then I used the Batch Update feature in the Admin panel to try to find them by their Note number, but it only gets me the Source that they are attached to.

I will try to download the GEDCOM to see if I can find any special privacy restrictions as you suggest, but then how do I edit the Note to fix it if I do find them?

Thanks!

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11 years 9 months ago #4 by kiwi
Replied by kiwi on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
Try running GEDCHECK (see FAQs in the WIKI). It sounds like you have broken links, they exist in the SOUR but not as NOTE.

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  • redheadkelly
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11 years 9 months ago - 11 years 9 months ago #5 by redheadkelly
Replied by redheadkelly on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
Actually, I downloaded my GEDCOM.

This is the citation for my source...
Code:
0 @S42@ SOUR 1 TITL [TNSMITH] Baird/Paris 1 AUTH Kenneth Shelton 1 PUBL http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/tnsmith/2000-11/0973388313 1 REPO @R-177250475@ 1 CHAN 2 DATE 28 MAY 2012 3 TIME 22:21:45 2 _WT_USER redheadkelly 1 NOTE @N117@ 1 NOTE @N118@ 1 NOTE @N119@ 1 NOTE @N120@ 1 NOTE @N121@ 1 NOTE @N122@

If I search the GEDCOM for N117 it says that this is the only mention of it.

In fact, I searched the GEDCOM for "0 @N11" and it stops at N116.

I tried to use the GEDCHECK, but I don't have enough memory allocated. And I'm assuming that the above evidence points to the fact that the Notes just don't exist.

Is this telling me that I just have to give up & recreate my notes?
Last edit: 11 years 9 months ago by redheadkelly.

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11 years 9 months ago - 11 years 9 months ago #6 by kiwi
Replied by kiwi on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes

Is this telling me that I just have to give up & recreate my notes?

Unless you have them stored somewhere that you can re-create them on the end of your file (then re-import), then yes. There must have been some issue in the .ged file you imported into webtrees that prevented them from being read. Most likely they did not exist in your original file.
Last edit: 11 years 9 months ago by kiwi.

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11 years 9 months ago #7 by redheadkelly
Replied by redheadkelly on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
Actually, I first installed webtrees & imported this GEDCOM about a year ago. Since then, I have exported the GEDCOM one time to make changes & then reimport it. That was the end of January.

The Shared Notes in question here were created Jan 3rd, so before the GEDCOM had ever been exported & reimported. Hmmm...

I know that I was creating a lot of Sources & connected Shared Notes to them all from RootsWeb posts. I kind of remember having trouble if there was an email address as part of the first line of the Note. Maybe I accidentally tried to save something like that. Who knows.

Well, I'm going back to the same post again & trying to figure out what I thought was important enough to copy to a Shared Note. Ha.

Thanks! Great software!

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11 years 9 months ago #8 by redheadkelly
Replied by redheadkelly on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
OK... I get the flaw in my logic here. If the Notes were created on Jan 3, I could have lost them when I exported & reimported at the end of January. But I found a backup Export that I did on Jan 23 & the Notes were already missing then. And now I have found even more of them that are the same way from several other Sources that were not the Rootsweb format.

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11 years 9 months ago - 11 years 9 months ago #9 by kiwi
Replied by kiwi on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
I wonder if you have other questions to ask yourself before you simply recreate these?
  • Are these really "shared" notes? Ones you expect to use repeatedly for other facts or events?
  • Are they notes at all? Perhaps they are the text from a source where that is used as the reference to a specific event.
  • Why do you need five, rather than one note continuously added to?
Last edit: 11 years 9 months ago by kiwi.

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11 years 9 months ago #10 by redheadkelly
Replied by redheadkelly on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
Well, I'm really more concerned about the fact that they're just missing altogether. But I'm curious if you are trying to clue me into some sort of webtrees theory that I'm somehow totally missing.

Are these really "shared" notes? Ones you expect to use repeatedly for other facts or events?


I don't really get the question. Technically, what kind of charcteristics qualify something as a Shared Note versus something else? Can't they just be whatever I want them to be?

Are they notes at all? Perhaps they are the text from a source where that is used as the reference to a specific event.


They are all text from a Source. And they are being used to support a specific event. Well, acutally, multiple specific events for multiple people. If I just enter the portion of text that relates to each Event in the Text section of the Source for the Event, there is no way that the people & events all get linked together. I just have pieces of the whole story hidden all over the place. But if I create a Shared Note that contains the whole text of the post from the RootsWeb mailing list, then I can go back & reread the whole thing if I want to. I can also pull up the Note & look at a list of all the people that it's attached to so that I can see how they are all related.

Why do you need five, rather than one note continuously added to?

Usually, I am dealing with one topic on a message board that may have multiple posts created by multiple people. From a data entry standpoint, I have found that it is most efficient to create a new Shared Note as I am creating new Events for people that are mentioned in each individual post rather than having to go back & find the original Note & tacking things on the end. Also, when I want to go back to reread things, it is easier to just pull up one short post to find what I am looking for rather than having to read through one huge note of concantenated posts to find what I am looking for. Also, everything loads quicker if I am only trying to pull up one Note instead of the whole conversation of posts.

Is there some sort of documentation theory that I'm not getting here that would make things easier or more organized??

While we're at it, I would love it if you would clear something up that has me a little confused.

I have always connected Sources & Shared Notes by going to the Details tab of the Source & choosing Shared Note from Add New Fact drop down.

I just noticed the other day, though, that you can go to the Shared Note & choose Source from the Add New Fact drop down. This seems like a better idea.

But it doesn't seem to update the number in the Sources column of the Shared Notes list. And it doesn't seem to add a Sources tab to the individual Shared Notes.

How do I connect Sources & Shared Notes that number is right in the Sources column of the Shared Notes list??

Actually, really what would make the whole thing work like a charm is if I could choose the Source as I am creating the Shared Note. Other windows, like the Add New Facts window or the Add New Media window have an Add New Source Citation link at the bottom. It would be nice to have this when I create a new Shared Note. Then everything can all be linked together without having to go to either the Sources list or the Shared Notes list.

Thanks!

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11 years 9 months ago #11 by fisharebest
Replied by fisharebest on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
<<I just noticed the other day, though, that you can go to the Shared Note & choose Source from the Add New Fact drop down. This seems like a better idea.>>

IMHO, this is not a better idea.

Notes are additional, unstructured comments and explanations.
Sources are used to assert facts. Therefore you attach souce/citations to facts.

The same applies to media objects. These should not have sources - because if anything, they *are* sources, and hence belong in citations. The place the media object was obtained "the source of the image" is not the same sort of entity as a "genealogical source".

There are others that disagree(!), and the arguments for/against can be found in the archives.

Greg Roach - greg@subaqua.co.uk - @fisharebest@phpc.social - fisharebest.webtrees.net

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  • redheadkelly
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11 years 9 months ago #12 by redheadkelly
Replied by redheadkelly on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
Oh, OK. So, if I attached Shared Notes to Sources as I always have, by going to the Details tab of the Source & choosing Shared Note from the Add New Fact drop-down, then it will update the number in the Sources column of the Shared Notes list & the number in the Shared Notes column of the Sources list.

But if I follow the same procedure for a Shared Note... go to the Details tab of the Shared Note & choose Source from the Add New Fact drop-down, it doesn't update either number in either column?

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11 years 9 months ago - 11 years 9 months ago #13 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
@RedHeadKelly

They are all text from a Source. And they are being used to support a specific event.

The GEDCOM has a specific tag for text from a source called "TEXT".

When you add a source_citation to an event after the field for the citation detail is a text field for the citation. Tipically the text from the citation goes here, not as a note.

Notes are generally for things that you want to say to yourself or to other genealogists about the information you have gathered. Like: "The passage was hard to read so the name could have been Jon or Jan".

Also the SOUR recorcd also has the same tag for text. I've never used it for long passages because I usually have a source as a book. But I suppose the source could be a chapter or group of pages and then the source text could be saved here as well.

Ken
Last edit: 11 years 9 months ago by norwegian_sardines.

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11 years 9 months ago #14 by redheadkelly
Replied by redheadkelly on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
Right. Sure.

When I create a new event for a person, there is always a Source. That is the first priority. As you say, Sources are meant to substantiate facts.

Then, if there is just one little piece of text that I can copy into the Text portion of the Source citation for that event for that person that really makes sense all on its own & doesn't involve any other people, then I just do that.

Often, though, there is a lot of text to the Source that does involve other people & can be helpful to substantiate other facts. If so, I create a Shared Note & include it with the Source citation for the fact. Then, I can go through & connect that same Shared Note as I create other Events for the other people.

I like that there is a sort of hierarchical display in webtrees.

If there is a Source attached to an Event, there is a little + with the Source name.

I like that if there are any Shared Notes reference in that Source citation, they are hidden in the +.

This makes for a very clean panel for each person. Things are only revealed when you want them to be. And the Shared Notes are nested in the Source. Love it.

When I said <<I just noticed the other day, though, that you can go to the Shared Note & choose Source from the Add New Fact drop down. This seems like a better idea.>> I wasn't meaning that this is a better way to substantiate facts. I always reference an Event with a Source. That would be my theory in any software. That's just standard practice.

What I am pondering here is how best to connect everything - people, Sources & Shared Notes - in webtrees specifically so that everything is organized & easily accessible.

When you reference a Source in webtrees, there is the field there to add the text of the Source, but it's limited in that it doesn't connect the text to the other people mentioned in the Source. That's why I use the Shared Notes.

I think the Census tool is great example. The 1850 census catalogs maybe millions of people. But I mostly focus on Tennessee & North Carolina. I've used the 1850 census as a citation for Events in 2,292 people in my database. It doesn't really help me to pull up the Source & look at a list of all these people, though. I like the idea that I can use the Census tool to connect the people in one small area that the Census covers. Then, I can just pull up the Shared Note that the Census tool created for one family or one page of the census & the data is much easier to analyze. It's easier to see who might be related.

Another one is property transactions. Sometimes a deed mentions several people from several families. And one deed book can contain references to many different people & many possibly unrelated families in the same tree. It doesn't really help to pull up the deed book Source & see the 50 people that have used it as a citation. Who's sold land to whom? Who's related to whom? It's easier to pull up one deed record & see just the people associated with it.

If I just enter the text of the deed as the text of the Source when I create the Property Event for each person, this creates a ton of duplicate text & doesn't connect the people to each other in any useful way. I could use the Associate feature, which I like, but it takes SO much time to have to reopen the Event to add each new Associate & then, since no cross reference is created, you have to do it again with each person. If there are 5 people mentioned in a deed, you have to create the 4 other Associates each time you create the Property Event for someone. This takes FOREVER. If there was a feature to handle Property Events that added on Event to everyone involved & then connected those people somehow like the Census tool does, then problem solved.

So, now I have a whole bunch deeds that are Shared Notes that came out of the same Deed Book. They could just float around in my Shared Notes list not connected to each other. Or I could connect them all to a Source. If I do it by going to the Source & choosing Shared Notes from the Add New Fact drop-down, two things happen. It displays the text of the Shared Notes in the Details tab of the Source. This might be nice if you have just a few short Shared Notes attached. If you have lots of long notes, though, it gets a little unruly. Also, it’s easier to copy the Source number & paste the same thing into a series of Shared Notes than it is to go to the Source page & have to look up every Shared Note that you want to add.

When I said that <<I just noticed the other day, though, that you can go to the Shared Note & choose Source from the Add New Fact drop down. This seems like a better idea.>> I meant it was a better idea to attach the Source to the Shared Note instead of attaching the Shared Note to the Source. Just from a data entry standpoint.

But I expected that when I did this it would update the number in the Sources column of the Shared Notes list & then add a Sources tab to the Shared Note, but it doesn't.

Then, it just makes sense to me that if you add Shared Note to a Source & it shows in the number of Shared Notes in the Sources list, why, when add a Source to a Shared Note, it doesn't show in the number of Sources in the Shared Notes list. Just a curiosity. :) I'm sure there was some programming logic that went into it. Just curious what it was.

And, again, with the Media. I do always use the Source first. Like for a map, I would enter a Property event for the date of the Map, cite the map as a Source, and then attach the media object. But what if I am going through my list of media objects & just wonder where I found a particular map? Maybe there are more good maps there. It's nice that the Source is listed right there. Now I know that link is created when I add a Media object in the Details tab of the Source. But that takes plenty of extra keystrokes. Isn't the link also created if add a Source to the Media object when I create it? That takes a lot less keystrokes. Sometimes, I have several Sources for the same Map & want to list them all. Do I have to go to each Source & add the Media Object or can I just go to the Map Media Object & add all the Sources there? That's quicker.

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11 years 9 months ago #15 by ToyGuy
Replied by ToyGuy on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
Sounds like your source creation may be too generalized. While I prefer to create more general sources (much like you), i include the details in the text portion of that reference, not usually in shared notes, although these are allowed.

Others prefer to have much more specific sources.

As an example, I have sources: S1880, S1890, S1900, S1910... which relate to
1880 USA Federal Census...respectively. Then, in the citation I supply the specifics of that census:
1880 USA Federal Census Transcription -Pikeville, Pike Co, Kentucky, USA - Robert McCoy household
and then within the TEXT, I supply even more data (including the URL to the census image) and the participants. With most, I then attach the formatted CA shared note. This entire event (CENS) with the attached SOUR and SN information can be copied to each participant's record.

Others would create a source for every transcription, disregarding nature and date as the differentiation. This would be your choice. General or specific. There are tons of posts about the creation and proper formation of SOUR references and how they relate to facts or events.

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11 years 9 months ago #16 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
I don't enter the text of sources all that much anymore since I moved to the digital age. The last time I was in the National archive in Norway I brought my highend digital camera, a small tripod, a book stand and took hundreds of pictures of documents that had meaning to my research. Some of this was for people who will probably never get to the archive. So for reading purposes I can look at the pictures. I can create a "book" digitally of these source documents using PDF and even read them off my lap top just like I would a book.

I'm not saying the way you do it is bad, I just telling you how I do it today. As I've pointed out previously I have a lot of photos of things so only a very small percent are connected to the webtrees DB. I have a photo DB/application on my system at home that does a better job of cateloging them.

Ken

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11 years 9 months ago #17 by kiwi
Replied by kiwi on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
A few hours ago (while I was still asleep) you asked:

But I'm curious if you are trying to clue me into some sort of webtrees theory that I'm somehow totally missing.

and some related questions. The short answer is no. The points I raised were just a challenge to check you were thinking the process through, and not making things unnecessarily complicated for yourself.

If what you are doing works for you, then that is fine.

Personally I agree with Greg that adding sources to notes (of any kind) is the wrong thing to do. Totally back-to-front in my view. You add a source to a fact or event, then you refine it, either for that specific event (add a citation, and/or text, or a note) or by expansion of the source itself.

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11 years 9 months ago #18 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
I was talking with a new friend in Norway last week who is doing a study of a Norwegian Valley where he is basically using one source to identify all of the people in the valley. It is purely event based because the source is the church record.

Each event is an entry in the church book. Marriage, baptism, death, vacination, confirmation, leaving and coming to the valley. He first enters the event information then enters all of the people associated with the event. The database structure is not a GEDCOM (because it is not event driven) and people records must be pulled together from various events. The software is not ready for "prime time" probably not even for "late night" but it helps him.

Ken

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11 years 9 months ago #19 by redheadkelly
Replied by redheadkelly on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
Thanks for all the input. It's appreciated. I have thought through again what I am doing, which is pretty much based on the Ancestry.com theory since the first GEDCOM of 16,000 people that I imported into webtrees was exported from there.

I think we have gotten off topic again, though. I would really like some help with this. It's not a question, though, on the theory of siting Sources. It's specific to how to connect things in webtrees.

Just to clear a few things up first:
  • I ALWAYS site a Source with an Event. I am not trying to use a Shared Note to substantiate an Event & then connecting that Shared Note to a Source. I agree, that would be totally back-to-front, as you say. I understand that the point of the Source is to substantiate the Fact & that the point of the Shared Note is to just add some additional information.

  • If I had access to books in a Library & the ability to photograph them, then I would probably do it the same way you are, norwegian_sardines, but the vast majority of what I find is on the Internet &, therefore, easy to cut & paste. And information on the internet can disappear easily, so I like to save a copy. Then I actually have a searchable database of my Sources. I have many different family lines that come from the same places, so I like to save what I find in case I find someone else in them later.

But my question really is:

I have a whole bunch of Sources that are used to substantiate Events when they are created.

I also have a whole bunch of Shared Notes which contain the text of Sources for the myriad reasons stated previously.

I would now somehow like to connect these Shared Notes to the Sources so that when I do a search for text that comes up up in a Shared Note I don't have to go the roundabout way of clicking on the Shared Note, clicking on the Individuals tab, clicking on one of the Individuals, and then expanding all of the Sources to find the Shared Note so that I know what Source the Shared Note is associated with.

I would also like whatever method I use to associated the Shared Note with the Source to update the number in the Sources column of the Shared Notes list.

That is my question. Thanks everyone. :)

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11 years 9 months ago - 11 years 9 months ago #20 by norwegian_sardines
Replied by norwegian_sardines on topic Re: Can't edit Shared Notes
Have you gone to the Source Record with a list of "Shared Notes" ID numbers and add them to the source. Just add them like you would a regulate note or text or a repository.


EDIT: I think I see a bug with the count on the source list. "Shared Notes" are not counted.

Ken
Last edit: 11 years 9 months ago by norwegian_sardines.

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