Web based family history software

Question Many albums in webtrees

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6 years 6 months ago #1 by tadeko
Many albums in webtrees was created by tadeko
Hi

Recently I tested webtrees and found out that webtrees is a great solution if we want to create a genome tree. It's almost everything. But I do not have the ability to group media files in separate albums, such as in TNG (The Next Generations). Do webtrees developers plan to add such functionality to their work?

Or maybe there are some other solutions I do not know about that allow you to create multiple albums for specific individuals but keeping their privacy? Unfortunately, I do not know how to create PHP code, and I can not create such an option myself.

tadeko

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6 years 6 months ago #2 by eh215
Replied by eh215 on topic Many albums in webtrees
Greg will speak to the future goals of webtrees, I believe I saw a note recently about improvements to Media handling in the next version, but in the past the direction has been to focus on its capabilities managing and displaying family trees, so less emphasis on integration with CMS or multi-media tools since those are complex endeavors by themselves.

What some users have done is to find a multi-media or photo gallery product that they like, load photos into that and then create URL links from webtrees facts / events over to that other tool. Within the Wiki section on Media Management , look for "Remote Media."

One of the disadvantages of that solution is the media only show as a link on your webtrees site.

I have a mix on my site. The vast majority of media on my site are documents, tombstones and images that are more tied to facts & events, which I have loaded into webtrees and are displayed only through webtrees. Many photos of people (particularly groups of people) I have stored off in a separate gallery tool and are linked to various facts/events within webtrees. Within the Gallery tool, in the caption for each photo I placed a link to the webtres INDI for each person so someone who started out in the gallery could also see the genealogy. A bit more time-consuming to build though.

Eric

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6 years 6 months ago #3 by tadeko
Replied by tadeko on topic Many albums in webtrees
Eric

Thank you for your answer.

Do you know when you expect a new version of webtrees and if you know more about plans for organizing your media files in this new release?

I would also be interested in how many webtrees forum users would be important to have the ability to create multiple albums for one person. Is it possible to conduct a survey, polling among them?

It turns out that there is no ideal program tailored to our needs. What you can do in one, you can not do in the other. I am testing webtrees on a local computer from a GEDCOM file that I imported from Gramps (in this program I am creating my family tree so far).

TNG is considered by many people who make family tree trees the best. When I learned that TNG was capable of creating multiple albums for a single person, I did not take a closer look at his options for buying one. I started testing it and I'm disappointed :(

For example, TNG allows you to assign media objects to fact or events, and you can display this single document by clicking on the thumbnail at the event (this is also in webtrees). But if this object is not linked to the event, but to the source assigned to the event, then clicking on the link displays all documents from the source, not the single document. I have a source in which there are over 100 media objects and it is pointless to search the document list for one document to display it!

webtrees can display a single document assigned to the source. And that is the ideal solution for me when a given event is assigned a thumbnail of the original document under the assigned source and quote and can be immediately displayed. And also, when you can citation the source and media object assigned to it until after the 'plus' expansion. If someone will be interested to read the quote and see the document, it will expanding 'plus', and whoever does not, it will not do it. I consider this a great accomplishment for webtrees developers, and I consider them ideal (for my web page functionality and web page design aesthetics)!

It happened that I in the program Gramps attributed media files only to the source. When I import a Gedcom file created in Gramps to webtrees, I immediately get the perfect situation that when I click on 'plus' I get a thumbnail of the document that is the link to this document. And if I had decided to create a tree in TNG, then I would have to reassign my 1200 documents to events and that job would scare me! :)

TNG has the ability to create multiple albums from any media file and assign it to a person. I think this is great functionality! In our world, multimedia is playing a huge role, and genealogic programmers, in the spirit of time, should take that fact into consideration as quickly as possible. And webtrees developers too :) I have a hot call to his works: it would be great if the next version of webtrees was equipped with the ability to organize the multimedia in the form of albums!

tadeko

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6 years 6 months ago #4 by ToyGuy
Replied by ToyGuy on topic Many albums in webtrees
Our goal has always been to create a GEDCOM-compliant program; one that could import from other GEDCOM-compliant or nearly compliant programs and perform an export that other programs could use. No CMS. No Gallery.

Perhaps you could describe what purpose would be served by multiple individual albums? You can already create as many folders and subfolders you desire for organization. But GEDCOM was never a media file manipulator and anything governing additional features will be lost upon export, particularly since there is no GEDCOM standard for such concepts.

There are all kinds of features that have been available in many other programs. Many have come and gone and left their users with no ability to use those features. webtrees has strived to avoid this too.

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6 years 6 months ago #5 by eh215
Replied by eh215 on topic Many albums in webtrees
ToyGuy Santa brings up a great point as always! For most of us portability is important even if we do all our work within webtrees. GECOM is an older, USA-biased and outdated standard as these things go, but it is the only universal standard for exporting & importing genealogical information. If you introduce features that are not compatible with GEDCOM, what will you do if you need to move your family tree or share a portion of it with a family member who uses different software?

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6 years 6 months ago #6 by tadeko
Replied by tadeko on topic Many albums in webtrees
ToyGuy

I know that every genealogy program should try to stay compliant with GEDCOM. But at the start, incompatibility may occur, as the programs use 5.5.1 or 5.5. Programs I've known before, HyHeritage Family Tree Builder, My Family Tree, Gramps, and webtrees, use the 5.5.1 standard. But TNG remained with Gedcom 5.5. (I wish I had seen it when I bought this program). When I import a ged file from Gramps and webtrees to TNG, I lose some tags like MAP, REL. TNG is fortunate at importing the option that you can import the latitude and longitude of a place, and it has the Google Maps feature right there. But when I exported the ged file from TNG, there is no MAP tag in that file with the latitude and longitude of the place. And it is sad. Because going from TNG to a program that supports 5.5.1, such as webtrees, I would have to again organize Google Maps, that is, enter the latitude and longitude of each place anew!

You write that other programs have features that are not included in GEDCOM and can not be transferred to other programs. But webtrees, like MyHeritage, and TNG, have a Story function that can not be exported to a ged file, and they are only in the MySql database. The creators of these programs do not care that they can not save History in a ged file, they just follow the needs of their users. The users wanted it, so you had to add it.

I have the need to divide all of the media files that are assigned to the item (such as photos, videos, audio, pdf files) and to display these parts separately by clicking on the link to the name of the part. In MyHeritage and TNG programs, organized media is called albums. Because when it comes to documents such as births, deaths, marriages, of course, I assign them to events and are displayed individually. For such documents I do not need to create albums. (But there are other types of documents like a newspaper, a book, a diploma, etc., and you can imagine that another person has so many of these documents that they would also like to split into separate albums.) Because multimedia files are assigned to a person, they will be moved to a ged file and there will be no problem importing them into other programs. Of course, they will be unformatted in albums and will be visible all at once but will not be lost when exporting a ged file.

What is the organization of media files in webtrees? It does not look good. Consider, for example, acts of the type. If I link them to the source, their thumbnails (link) will not show until they expand 'plus' and it's ok, they will also appear after clicking on the tabs: Source, Multimedia and ... Album. If I combine them with an event, they will appear directly at the event and in the tabs: Multimedia and Album.

The Multimedia tab shows a list of all media objects that are attached to events or sources. But why in the Album tab display all the files in the Multimedia tab? They could only display files such as photos, videos, audio files. This would be the minimal functionality of the media organization at webtrees. So separating photos, movies and audio (which are always more interested and more likely to be viewed) from file types, other documents, newspaper, book, diploma, etc. The order of files in the Album tab is ok, but that is not enough.

I do not know PHP and JavaScript programming and I do not know how great could be the difficulty in adding webtrees to the Album function. This was done by creators of very popular in Poland (I live in this country) of MyHeritage program and considered by some to be the best TNG program in the world (apparently is interested in users of this type of function) so why could not developers do this webtrees?

I declare my need. I do not know how many webtrees users also have it. If the album organizer was added to webtrees, it would be for me the perfect and best genealogy program in the world! I would recommend it to all people around. (MyHeritage and TNG also have the function of organizing separate cemetery and gravestone images, but for me it is not so important to suggest that this module be built into webtrees.)

I paid for $ 33 TNG, but after testing it I decided not to develop my family tree in it. I would have to delete all media source files and assign them to events, and this is too much work. If I did, however, and wanted to withdraw from TNG, I would lose the geographic location. In addition, TNG requires that media files be small in size, such as images can have a maximum of 640x750 px, which in our day is probably difficult to accept.

I will develop a tree in webtrees with the hope that I will enjoy better functionality in organizing the media :)

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6 years 6 months ago #7 by ToyGuy
Replied by ToyGuy on topic Many albums in webtrees
Important information inline quotes

I know that every genealogy program should try to stay compliant with GEDCOM. But at the start, incompatibility may occur, as the programs use 5.5.1 or 5.5. Programs I've known before, HyHeritage Family Tree Builder, My Family Tree, Gramps, and webtrees, use the 5.5.1 standard. But TNG remained with Gedcom 5.5. (I wish I had seen it when I bought this program). When I import a ged file from Gramps and webtrees to TNG, I lose some tags like MAP, REL. TNG is fortunate at importing the option that you can import the latitude and longitude of a place, and it has the Google Maps feature right there. But when I exported the ged file from TNG, there is no MAP tag in that file with the latitude and longitude of the place. And it is sad. Because going from TNG to a program that supports 5.5.1, such as webtrees, I would have to again organize Google Maps, that is, enter the latitude and longitude of each place anew!

You write that other programs have features that are not included in GEDCOM and can not be transferred to other programs. But webtrees, like MyHeritage, and TNG, have a Story function that can not be exported to a ged file, and they are only in the MySql database.

webtrees does not Story function. One of our experienced users offered a module that, as noted in the wiki, is not retained in the GEDCOM. If you search these many posts, you'll see that many experienced users suggest that, if stories are an important part of your GEDCOM, you should use NOTES and SHARED NOTES. The same is true for the FAQ module and others too, including many of Carmen's modules. Great additions if you intend to use webtrees, but not so great if you want to retain the look and feel upon export.

The creators of these programs do not care that they can not save History in a ged file, they just follow the needs of their users. The users wanted it, so you had to add it.

Not really true.

I have the need to divide all of the media files that are assigned to the item (such as photos, videos, audio, pdf files) and to display these parts separately by clicking on the link to the name of the part. In MyHeritage and TNG programs, organized media is called albums. Because when it comes to documents such as births, deaths, marriages, of course, I assign them to events and are displayed individually. For such documents I do not need to create albums. (But there are other types of documents like a newspaper, a book, a diploma, etc., and you can imagine that another person has so many of these documents that they would also like to split into separate albums.) Because multimedia files are assigned to a person, they will be moved to a ged file and there will be no problem importing them into other programs. Of course, they will be unformatted in albums and will be visible all at once but will not be lost when exporting a ged file.

What is the organization of media files in webtrees? It does not look good.

I would disagree. It offers unlimited filing in folders and subfolders and allows you to use whatever naming convention you so choose.

Consider, for example, acts of the type. If I link them to the source, their thumbnails (link) will not show until they expand 'plus' and it's ok,

Use autoexpand and all these will show without further action by you or your users.

they will also appear after clicking on the tabs: Source, Multimedia and ... Album. If I combine them with an event, they will appear directly at the event and in the tabs: Multimedia and Album.

The Multimedia tab shows a list of all media objects that are attached to events or sources. But why in the Album tab display all the files in the Multimedia tab? They could only display files such as photos, videos, audio files. This would be the minimal functionality of the media organization at webtrees. So separating photos, movies and audio (which are always more interested and more likely to be viewed) from file types, other documents, newspaper, book, diploma, etc. The order of files in the Album tab is ok, but that is not enough.

Sorry, there are two tabs that are basically duplicates. Your choice - disable one or the other. I don't use both. And again, GEDCOM does not allow for this differentiation.

I do not know PHP and JavaScript programming and I do not know how great could be the difficulty in adding webtrees to the Album function. This was done by creators of very popular in Poland (I live in this country) of MyHeritage program and considered by some to be the best TNG program in the world (apparently is interested in users of this type of function) so why could not developers do this webtrees?

I declare my need. I do not know how many webtrees users also have it. If the album organizer was added to webtrees, it would be for me the perfect and best genealogy program in the world! I would recommend it to all people around. (MyHeritage and TNG also have the function of organizing separate cemetery and gravestone images, but for me it is not so important to suggest that this module be built into webtrees.)

I still am unclear as to the purpose or your needs, and I certainly don't believe that a more complicated organizational structure would ever be GEDCOM compliant.

I paid for $ 33 TNG, but after testing it I decided not to develop my family tree in it. I would have to delete all media source files and assign them to events, and this is too much work. If I did, however, and wanted to withdraw from TNG, I would lose the geographic location. In addition, TNG requires that media files be small in size, such as images can have a maximum of 640x750 px, which in our day is probably difficult to accept.

webtrees is NOT a media management program. Frankly, I don't ever anticipate it being so. Archival of large images for use in supporting GEDCOM facts/events is not conducive to creating an efficient system, especially of any size. Many host their sites on small resourced hosts and archival sized images of high resolution can create significant problems. IMHO, images for historical purposes and possible printing, rather than a 72-133dpi presentation online, should be stored in an organized folder structure outside of webtrees, or in a program designed specifically for the storage and possible printing of those images. There is little need for an image over 1mb within webtrees.

Of course, all this is just my personal opinion. Greg is the core developer and the rest of us try to keep up so we can provide support. I go back to nearly the beginning of PGV.

I will develop a tree in webtrees with the hope that I will enjoy better functionality in organizing the media :)


Santa Stephen the Fabled Santa
Latest webtrees at MyArnolds.com
Hosted by webtreesonline.com , a division of GeneHosts LLC
MacOS 10.6.8, Apache 2.2+, PHP 5.4.16, MySQL 5.5.28

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6 years 6 months ago #8 by kiwi
Replied by kiwi on topic Many albums in webtrees

ToyGuy wrote: webtrees does not Story function.


I hate to contradict my old mate ToyGuy, but webtrees does, for now at least, have a "stories" module. I wrote it and it appears to still exist in the current version. Yes, it is true it does not store the content in GEDCOM, but that's not a concern for those interested in using it, whatever purists might say.

@tadeko - for add-ons similar perhaps to your needs look at one I originally wrote and is now available from "Vytux" at vytux.com/main/projects/webtrees/ - Vytux Gallery3 . If I can be of further help feel free to get in touch by email.

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6 years 6 months ago #9 by tadeko
Replied by tadeko on topic Many albums in webtrees
ToyGuy

I agree that each genealogy program should be GEDCOM compliant and keep all genealogical data in the exported ged file. Also, I think you can write Stories using the NOTE tag.
On the other hand, any genealogy program that uses web pages should adequately enter and display collected data. webtrees does it very well. And that's why I would like to use it. Program creators, as well as Weebtrees, are constantly working to improve their program and bring about a variety of innovations that make the program more and more attractive to its users. And these enhancements can make people like webtrees and will use it as it will attract more functionality and attractiveness.

I think such a further improvement would be a new way of organizing the media. This is what I think will in no way be incompatible with GEDCOM, because the media files I add to webtrees will be linked to the person and will be in the exported ged file and will be able to see them in another genealogy program all, though only all at once. I would like to organize the media into albums, and this will make webtrees even more attractive for me and for many other users, and will never make it to webtrees to abandon and use another genealogy program that It offers such functionality.

As for the size of multimedia files, my average is 130 KB, and the largest is probably 350 KB. But most of them have a resolution greater than 640x750px. Are my files too big?

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6 years 6 months ago #10 by tadeko
Replied by tadeko on topic Many albums in webtrees
Nigel

Thank you for showing me how to solve the problem of media organization in webtrees. Your Vuitx_gallery3_wt-1.7.5 module is very good and I will use it. But could you modify or rewrite a module that has the features I describe below?

1. The module allows you to select any file from a single folder or any file from multiple folders into the gallery. Your module can only display all images in a single folder.

2. On the person's page there are tabs: Facts and events, Families, Sources, etc. Here you have the possibility to add the Gallery tab, where the next lines in the table will display links to album or albums assigned to that particular person and descriptions of those galleries. When you click on the gallery link should open a new page, or something like LightBox, where you can view the gallery files one by one or slide show.

3. Assigning a particular gallery to a particular person should be done in the admin panel of the gallery creation. This assignment should result in a link to this gallery in the person Galleries tab. The gallery's admin panel, in addition to the ability to edit a particular album, could also link to this gallery.

The gallery module would be perfect for me. Surely the functionality and the presentation of multimedia files in webtrees will be good :)

Tadeko

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6 years 6 months ago #11 by kiwi
Replied by kiwi on topic Many albums in webtrees
You will need to talk to "Vitux" about that. As I said, I created it originally but I no longer have input into the webtrees version of it. He might see this post, but it would be better if you contacted him through his website (where you found the module).

What you are describing in your point 2 is basically an enhancement of the "Album" module. I have done that, but not for webtrees I'm afraid.

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6 years 6 months ago #12 by tadeko
Replied by tadeko on topic Many albums in webtrees
Since the Media tab and the Albums tab contain all of the media files assigned to the person, you can actually enhance the Album tab as I described in the previous post. You could then rename the Album tab on Albums. But that definitely requires a deep interference in the source code webtrees, so it will not be easy unless?

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6 years 6 months ago #13 by kiwi
Replied by kiwi on topic Many albums in webtrees

tadeko wrote: Since the Media tab and the Albums tab contain all of the media files assigned to the person, you can actually enhance the Album tab as I described in the previous post. You could then rename the Album tab on Albums. But that definitely requires a deep interference in the source code webtrees, so it will not be easy unless?


See my previous answer:

kiwi wrote: I have done that, but not for webtrees I'm afraid.


You have my contact details if you wish to discuss this further.

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